Contract Cheating

This is a discussion on Contract Cheating within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by brewbuck I'd bet that if you reviewed the last three years of comments, you would not see ...

  1. #16
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Out of scope
    Posts
    4,074
    Quote Originally Posted by brewbuck View Post
    I'd bet that if you reviewed the last three years of comments, you would not see a single deal being closed here to exchange code for money. I certainly can't think of one.
    I couldn't guarantee that for every one of the 308 topics in this forum, but I'd imagine if you were to go in that forum and look at every topic you might also find one or more incidences where students attempted to pass homework off as a job they were willing to pay for only to be shut down by members as homework is obviously homework.
    Sent from my iPadŽ

  2. #17
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    segmentation fault
    Posts
    8,300
    Quote Originally Posted by jim mcnamara View Post
    I'm not suggesting anything. I am a mod on another site -we are being removed from the list because we demonstrated that we have always actively blocked homework and have a zero tolerance for it.
    Pathetic -- all the little wannabe fascist twerps can use your site then. You can even call it the "No Advice" forum, for morons.

    I'd love to hear what these "professors" would have to say if I got some group of insane fundamentalists together and came up with a reason to curtail their freedom of speech. Like, you should not be allowed to teach computer science period because the computers are instruments of satan and are abherrations according to Creation Theory.

    But great for you jim -- why don't you bend over and show 'em the other cheek.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  3. #18
    Captain Crash brewbuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    7,249
    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    I've had this happen more than once and I still don't care and don't agree with your premises or your interpretation. I do understand why the moderators should not make it a practice. You know what would really ruin the board -- forcing the moderators to tell people they have crossed the line by divulging too much information about c programming, on an advice forum for c programmers. I've never been offered for money** and usually ignore (that kind of) pm because I don't see a need for secrecy.
    Handing over an entire solution is no more "divulging information" than giving somebody an encyclopedia in response to a question. Code isn't information (well, it is, but that's not what I'm talking about). The information is knowledge resident in somebody's brain. Obviously, exchanging information as widely as possible is a good thing. I just don't think raw code is a good medium for that exchange.

    I'm not in favor of any kind of enforcement against people who post homework solutions. I just have to wonder why they do it.

    I certainly wasn't thinking about you, MK27, when I wrote my comment. I wasn't aware that had ever happened to you -- I was thinking more about the new users with low post counts who post solutions (for "street cred?" I don't know)
    Code:
    //try
    //{
    	if (a) do { f( b); } while(1);
    	else   do { f(!b); } while(1);
    //}

  4. #19
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    segmentation fault
    Posts
    8,300
    Quote Originally Posted by whiteflags View Post
    This list is hilarious. By contract cheating, I assume people are getting paid for doing others homework. While that is not impossible here through collusion, we ranked 110 spots higher than rentacoder.
    Which supports the very real possibility that these are "profs" who are mostly interesting in roadblocking education generally. Those exist, you can take classes from them too. However, IMO academia is an international realm and the people tend to have an idea of who is who, so I bet you this list is not widely circulated or taken seriously.

    A great move would be for someone "with pull and knowledge" to contact a CS faculty willing to to stand up and say they are ethically opposed to this list and it's premises and methods.

    [edit] hmm, this list is in alphabetical order, whiteflags. Are you just trying to upset me?
    Last edited by MK27; 05-19-2009 at 03:36 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  5. #20
    Kernel hacker
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Farncombe, Surrey, England
    Posts
    15,677
    I have been known to post some sort of solution to a problem. But it is then written in obfuscated C/C++, and if the student actually uses that for the homework submission, then it will be fairly obviuous that it wasn't written by a new student.

    http://pastebin.com/ ??
    I mean, obviously, it would be possible to find source code in pastebin, but how is it "contract cheating"?

    --
    Mats
    Last edited by matsp; 05-19-2009 at 03:12 PM.
    Compilers can produce warnings - make the compiler programmers happy: Use them!
    Please don't PM me for help - and no, I don't do help over instant messengers.

  6. #21
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    21,937
    Eh, MK27, I have pointed out that it is a misconception to think that the numerical ranking has any significance. If we were located at zcboard.cprogramming.com instead, we would be last on that list since it lists the URLs in alphabetical order.

    Quote Originally Posted by MK27
    A great move would be for someone "with pull and knowledge" to contact a CS faculty willing to to stand up and say they are ethically opposed to this list and it's premises and methods.
    Supposed the heading of the list was changed to "websites that students approach to ask for homework answers". Would you then object to such a list?

    The only thing bad about that list is that it borders on libel since it claims that this community engages in contracts to help students cheat when we do no such thing.
    C + C++ Compiler: MinGW port of GCC
    Version Control System: Bazaar

    Look up a C++ Reference and learn How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

  7. #22
    Captain Crash brewbuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    7,249
    Quote Originally Posted by laserlight View Post
    The only thing bad about that list is that it borders on libel since it claims that this community engages in contracts to help students cheat when we do no such thing.
    Indeed, it's a serious charge. People have sued for a lot less.
    Code:
    //try
    //{
    	if (a) do { f( b); } while(1);
    	else   do { f(!b); } while(1);
    //}

  8. #23
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    segmentation fault
    Posts
    8,300
    Quote Originally Posted by brewbuck View Post
    Handing over an entire solution is no more "divulging information" than giving somebody an encyclopedia in response to a question. Code isn't information
    Part of what I mean by disagreeing with the premise. It may not be the best way to demonstrate something, but it seems totally valid and useful to me.

    Also, if someone is really looking for a solution and you have it, why not give it to them? It seems wrong to be paranoid about it because you are afraid you might be doing someone's homework for them. Everyone knows you will learn more figuring it out by yourself, but there is also a reason we don't code everything in asm.


    I certainly wasn't thinking about you, MK27, when I wrote my comment. I wasn't aware that had ever happened to you -- I was thinking more about the new users with low post counts who post solutions (for "street cred?" I don't know)
    I don't mind at all hearing from someone when they think I have just written someone else's assignment. It definitely has happened more than once. But I cannot take the argument, etc, very seriously either. I doubt that many of my "answers" made it verbatim into someone's homework (I don't intend that), but if they did I could care less. Why should my priorities be curtailed because of the priorities of Prof. Stalin, et al.? What have they done for me lately? I don't see any "ethical playing field" there AT ALL.

    I learned C (at least partially) at cboard, and one of the major ways I did that was to flat out take homework assignments and do some element of it "for them" (of course, it wasn't for them, it was mostly for me). There's a lot of value to repeatedly solving similar "problems" to improve your knowledge of syntax. I should almost apply for credits

    Just to clarify, in case Prof Stalin has some faculty computer running a scan bot in his maniacal efforts to squash the anarchy at cprogramming dot com and I will be to blame for all of it or get banned, I do treat people who say they are doing homework differently because I do agree homework serves a purpose and should be approached that way. I never cheated in school, but I would always discuss material with anyone interested. HOWEVER, my priority is other people whom I perceive to be in the same boat as me: they are learning without the benefit of an institution, and I think it is *very* important to help one another as much as possible. In that context, the idea of "cheating" just doesn't make sense or bare thinking about. At all. There is no way I would withhold from such a person on the suspicion that they *might* be trying to cheat at their school of choice.

    @laserlight -- yay, I haven't actually looked at it, I guess I shouldn't have taken the word of whiteflags for granted. Wow, this has really got me heated up. Still, I don't think the majority of university professors would take this "blacklisting" style idea seriously.
    Last edited by MK27; 05-19-2009 at 03:39 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  9. #24
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    21,937
    Quote Originally Posted by MK27
    It may not be the best way to demonstrate something, but it seems totally valid and useful to me.

    Also, if someone is really looking for a solution and you have it, why not give it to them?
    Because people tend to learn better when they come up with a solution themselves, say after some hints and related examples. You can always show them a "model answer" after they have come up with their own best attempt.

    Quote Originally Posted by MK27
    It seems wrong to be paranoid about it because you are afraid you might be doing someone's homework for them.
    Even if the question is not homework per se, it can be seen as self-assigned homework.

    Quote Originally Posted by MK27
    Everyone knows you will learn more figuring it out by yourself, but there is also a reason we don't code everything in asm.
    I am afraid that I do not follow your argument.
    C + C++ Compiler: MinGW port of GCC
    Version Control System: Bazaar

    Look up a C++ Reference and learn How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

  10. #25
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    segmentation fault
    Posts
    8,300
    Quote Originally Posted by laserlight View Post
    I am afraid that I do not follow your argument.
    Re: why we don't code in asm (or binary)? I don't know a stitch of it, so in a very real sense, I am cheating myself out of knowledge by using the C language and a C compiler, which does many nice things for me so that I can spend my time more productively. Or spouting off here
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  11. #26
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Out of scope
    Posts
    4,074
    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    Re: why we don't code in asm (or binary)? I don't know a stitch of it, so in a very real sense, I am cheating myself out of knowledge by using the C language and a C compiler, which does many nice things for me so that I can spend my time more productively. Or spouting off here
    Hardly the same thing.
    Sent from my iPadŽ

  12. #27
    Ethernal Noob
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    1,901
    It wouldn't surprise me if many teachers find a student seeking legitimate help (showing code and all) as cheating.

    It speaks more about those teachers than it does about our forums.
    Here to Deceive, Inveigle, Obfuscate Since 1945

  13. #28
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    7,340
    >> I am a mod on another site -we are being removed from the list because we demonstrated
    >> that we have always actively blocked homework and have a zero tolerance for it.

    I post on tek-tips.com occasionally. I'm not sure if that's the site you refer to, but it sounds similar. The homework policy on that site is a "zero-tolerance" policy, but it is hardly something to strive to duplicate. Beyond the fact that the enforced policy is different than the stated one (at least it was the last time I checked), I think the enforced policy goes way too far. I can understand it in some sense for a site dedicated to professionals as that one is, but following the same rules here would almost entirely remove the value of this site.

    There is a difference between allowing students to ask questions related to homework and allowing students to get solutions for their homework. And while I think that more could be done here to make the amount of assistance given acceptable, I think following the example of tek-tips and completely ignoring that difference would be a horrible idea.

  14. #29
    Woof, woof! zacs7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3,459
    How was the list compiled?

    I know for a fact that some members say they'll do their homework if they PM them, but instead run them around the bush :-)

  15. #30
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    9,596
    I want to be off the list just so we don't have to deal with wave after wave of lazy students who come here asking the same stupid questions hiding behind the same stupid posts.

    But overall I could care less what the list says. I have never seen a post where money was exchanged in return for completed homework. In fact when this is offered quite the opposite happens and then most of our core members give the OP a royal thrashing that they will not soon forget.

    Keep in mind that these types of posts are often mass-posted across many many boards so I fail to see how we turned up on the list other than we are a site dedicated to assisting with C/C++. Looks like the peope who compiled the list just googled for programming help sites and then alphabetized the results. But in the end I really believe this is one battle not worth fighting and we should go about our business. Who cares about that list? Keep in mind it is so popular...yet none of us knew about it until this thread.

    I read kermi3's homework post. It doesn't appear to be enforced....
    Yet you are from another site and you have deduced that we do not enforce the homework policy? Seems a bit arrogant. There is nothing in that thread that is 'contract cheating.' Rather the members helped the student through the problem and had them post their own code. If we cannot make recommendations to students about their code then you are basically saying they must learn everything in class from their professor. Your statement about the homework policy not being enforced is absurd as is offering that thread as proof.
    Last edited by VirtualAce; 05-19-2009 at 06:22 PM.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Popular pages Recent additions subscribe to a feed

Similar Threads

  1. Phoenix VC++ MFC Contract Position
    By Bill Law in forum Projects and Job Recruitment
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-13-2007, 08:17 PM
  2. Contract Positions... lots of them
    By Jaqui in forum Projects and Job Recruitment
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-13-2006, 06:57 AM
  3. Service Contract Search
    By smitsky in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-30-2004, 07:17 PM
  4. Contract anyone?
    By RoD in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 10-08-2004, 07:03 AM
  5. Of Cheating Men and Cheating Women
    By bookworm in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 07-16-2003, 11:32 AM

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21