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What's up with Java programmers, anyway?

This is a discussion on What's up with Java programmers, anyway? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Something I've noticed from asking questions on the JDN forums is just how clueless these people are. Of the 50+ ...

  1. #1
    Guest Sebastiani's Avatar
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    What's up with Java programmers, anyway?

    Something I've noticed from asking questions on the JDN forums is just how clueless these people are. Of the 50+ responses to posts there, except for maybe 3 or so, I've gotton nothing but non-sequitars, head-scratching, and confused expressions. This isn't limited to the junior members, either - even the veterans there are apt to respond with things like "why would you want to do such a thing?" and the like. And if it doesn't come in a can (ie: some Java package) then your chances of getting a meaningful reply dwindle to mostly zero.

    Has C++ just made us better programmers - more inquisitive, pushing our minds to the limits, always searching for better insight, while Java programmers brains turn to jell-o due to non-exposure to the 'low-level details'? Pure speculation. But what I do know is that I'd probably get better Java advice on CBoard!
    Code:
    #include <cmath>
    #include <complex>
    bool euler_flip(bool value)
    {
        return std::pow
        (
            std::complex<float>(std::exp(1.0)), 
            std::complex<float>(0, 1) 
            * std::complex<float>(std::atan(1.0)
            *(1 << (value + 2)))
        ).real() < 0;
    }

  2. #2
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastiani View Post
    Has C++ just made us better programmers -
    Dunno dude, but I would concurr that cboard stuff is mostly way above the average created on other programming forums, which were probably taken over by trolls years ago. Maybe Java types are hamstrung by a silver spoon?

    Could be the nature of the beast. C/C++ seems sort of hardcore/academic to me (I like academic), whereas w/ more "commercial" things there is much less of an establishment/standard/institution to ignore...
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  3. #3
    and the hat of sweating
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    I've noticed the same thing.
    I think if the Java language was a little better (using some of the good ideas from C++ & other languages like a const keyword, unsigned int types, C++ type casts, real templates, more errors caught at compile-time rather than run-time...) then that would also produce better Java programmers. A lot of Java programs I've seen look very sloppy compared to C++. They seem to rely WAY too much on casting and RTTI rather than better designs that avoid the need for such things.
    "I am probably the laziest programmer on the planet, a fact with which anyone who has ever seen my code will agree." - esbo, 11/15/2008

    "the internet is a scary place to be thats why i dont use it much." - billet, 03/17/2010

  4. #4
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastiani
    even the veterans there are apt to respond with things like "why would you want to do such a thing?" and the like.
    What kind of questions have been rebuffed by that sort of question?
    C + C++ Compiler: MinGW port of GCC
    Version Control System: Bazaar

    Look up a C++ Reference and learn How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

  5. #5
    Hail to the king, baby. Akkernight's Avatar
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    I hate. I simply hate it so much when peeps interfere with your coding in a way of 'why' >.< Spending a whole post that you'll have to reply before getting a real answer, just to get a 'why I'm doing it', it makes me wanna soak myself in fuel, light myself on fire, run into a wall and die!
    Like, all these pro programmers that I know WON'T give simple answers D: I ask them if a .lib contains the data for a .cpp file ( I did yesterday ) and they reply ".lib contains binary code you dumb ........" (not exactly like that, but they think it, I know it!) instead of just giving me a simple NO >.< I loose it, throw away my programming tools and go spend my time playing games or working on my bike >.>
    Currently research OpenGL

  6. #6
    Guest Sebastiani's Avatar
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    >> I hate. I simply hate it so much when peeps interfere with your coding in a way of 'why' >.< Spending a whole post that you'll have to reply before getting a real answer, just to get a 'why I'm doing it', it makes me wanna soak myself in fuel, light myself on fire, run into a wall and die!

    That's...a little extreme, but yes, that sort of captures the frustration.

    >> What kind of questions have been rebuffed by that sort of question?

    The questions ranged from very basic generic programming issues (eg: How can I make XXX into a generic dispatch mechanism (compile error)?), to class extension logistical problems (eg: How can I derive a class from BufferedImage (it can't be resized)?), to locating language functionality (eg: How to obtain class bytes?), just to name a few. Other than perhaps the last question (which was fairly esoteric, I admit), none of the other questions really deserved that sort of treatment. Just simple, straightforward questions, really. But the majority of the responses wouldn't even address the question at all. Just completely random remarks (just barely passing the turing test), making for a very awkward conversation, to say the least.
    Code:
    #include <cmath>
    #include <complex>
    bool euler_flip(bool value)
    {
        return std::pow
        (
            std::complex<float>(std::exp(1.0)), 
            std::complex<float>(0, 1) 
            * std::complex<float>(std::atan(1.0)
            *(1 << (value + 2)))
        ).real() < 0;
    }

  7. #7
    Hail to the king, baby. Akkernight's Avatar
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    Yes, I was extreme 'cause I was ........ed at that my final exam at Game Institute failed 'cause my internet started acting up and disconnected in the end >.> I get to finish the exam over again tho...
    Currently research OpenGL

  8. #8
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    An online final exam? I thought even online courses have proctored exams (at least the one I took did).

  9. #9
    not-a-geek
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastiani View Post
    while Java programmers brains turn to jell-o due to non-exposure to the 'low-level details'?
    I don't know about Java, but I'd concur that PHP definitely has this effect on me. I recently went through my old backups, trying to consolidate them a bit, and glanced at a few C applications I wrote. "what the .... was I doing there" - "how did I do that"...

  10. #10
    and the hat of sweating
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    An online final exam? I thought even online courses have proctored exams (at least the one I took did).
    All my tests & exams were online. It was a hell of a lot more convenient for my schedule.
    "I am probably the laziest programmer on the planet, a fact with which anyone who has ever seen my code will agree." - esbo, 11/15/2008

    "the internet is a scary place to be thats why i dont use it much." - billet, 03/17/2010

  11. #11
    Registered User BuzzBuzz's Avatar
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    It seems par for the course on most sites that when you ask "How would I do this..." you get "Why do you want to do that..."

    In some cases it is necessary as obviously there is no reason to reinvent the wheel, unless that really is your intention. But on the whole it is frustrating, however if you want the answer, sometimes you've got to jump through the hoops (and that is not just online and programming...)
    Any help I give may be classified as:
    The Blind leading the Blind...
    Currently working through:
    "C++ Primer Plus"

  12. #12
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuzzBuzz View Post
    (and that is not just online and programming...)
    Gosh, you mean dysfunctionalism is like -- normal?! Definitely.

    It would be nice to expect that programmers would be a little more self consciously rational, but obviously YMMV.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  13. #13
    Captain Crash brewbuck's Avatar
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    There will be antisocials no matter the programming language. This doesn't reflect badly on Java, just the web site where these unhelpful persons congregate.

    CBoard is a strange beast, halfway between the introductory forums where the most advanced question is why we have to return 0 from main(), and the private mailing lists where the super-experienced debate things we won't often encounter.

    It's not that the other forums are so much worse. It's that CBoard is so much better. A little optimism, hey?
    Code:
    //try
    //{
    	if (a) do { f( b); } while(1);
    	else   do { f(!b); } while(1);
    //}

  14. #14
    Guest Sebastiani's Avatar
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    That's a very noble attitude. But I still have my doubts.
    Code:
    #include <cmath>
    #include <complex>
    bool euler_flip(bool value)
    {
        return std::pow
        (
            std::complex<float>(std::exp(1.0)), 
            std::complex<float>(0, 1) 
            * std::complex<float>(std::atan(1.0)
            *(1 << (value + 2)))
        ).real() < 0;
    }

  15. #15
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Java is in my opinion an inferior language, I believe therefor that the people who choose to make it their primary language will tend to be of inferior intellect.

    Now read exactly what i said twice before knee jerk responding to it.

    Programming in C/C++ isn't a simple task, not everyone is cut out to be a programmer.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

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