Oh this one is GOOD!

This is a discussion on Oh this one is GOOD! within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by Elysia With Linux, you do not have the compatibility of all Windows apps, nor drivers for your ...

  1. #61
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    With Linux, you do not have the compatibility of all Windows apps, nor drivers for your hardware. And you do not have to recompile the kernel when installing a driver (manually?) or manually restart the X-server (or whatever the GUI is called?) when installing a graphics driver.
    Some distros are just not meant for people like you...
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    And you are usually safe from the Linux trends of "command lines first," "text-files, not configuration dialogs." Oh boy, have I seen a lot of those. Any Windows dev would never think in those lines if it is for a end-user.
    I don't really like to mess with the command line either, but configuration text-files are very nice IMO. Sometimes I go mad trying to find the place where I can change certain configurations in some Windows application. They're just scattered around the program. But if there is a text-file, you can use the good old invention - search.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Oh and Vista's animations are a lot smoother than any I got from Linux and no tricky configuration is required (even though Linux has more eye-candy effects).
    Smoother? That's hardly an argument since I can see no difference.
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  2. #62
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxorator View Post
    Some distros are just not meant for people like you...
    They certainly are not...

    Smoother? That's hardly an argument since I can see no difference.
    Yes, I always got a lot of jerky effects.
    And so many effects, and so many not working with each other, and quite clearly, usually the burden of making sure they don't conflict, is on you...
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  3. #63
    Woof, woof! zacs7's Avatar
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    Sounds like misconfiguration to me .

    Something you're often able to fix in Linux, but not in Windows. That's more due to the OpenSource fact more than anything else.

    Oh and there are configuration systems similar to that of windows (ie regedit):
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    Last edited by zacs7; 11-08-2008 at 03:45 AM.

  4. #64
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacs7 View Post
    Sounds like misconfiguration to me
    Yeah, maybe. But then again, I do not want to find misconfigurations. I want it be right from the start. I don't want the "power" or "flexibility" in this...

    Something you're often able to fix in Linux, but not in Windows. That's more due to the OpenSource fact more than anything else.
    Linux people seem to think that Open Source is requirement for everything (or so I seem to believe they do)...
    But for me, I do not want to dig into the source and fix problems. I expect software to work right from the beginning. If they do not, preferably, I switch software.

    No... Linux and Windows are two different pieces of a cake. They behave differently and always will.
    And people still believe that Linux should replace Windows... Ha!
    They shall both exist, for a purpose. People are different.
    But erm... I think we got a little off topic on that one, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  5. #65
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    I have yet to find an IDE equal to Visual Studio in all of this. Maybe I am just not looking enough, but oh well. At least Visual Studio is all I want.
    SlickEdit.

    Not equal. It makes Visual Studio look like a notepad replacement.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  6. #66
    Hail to the king, baby. Akkernight's Avatar
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    http://www.dba-oracle.com/images/motivational_linux.jpg
    That's why I won't even wanna try Linux :P I only use stuff that works instantly, without no need of real knowledge about it, and if it doesn't work as it should, I scrap it and try finding some other thing o the same type that does work, without me having to do anything :P
    This does not count for my programs tho :P
    Currently research OpenGL

  7. #67
    Cat without Hat CornedBee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akkernight View Post
    http://www.dba-oracle.com/images/motivational_linux.jpg
    That's why I won't even wanna try Linux :P
    You base your decisions on joke pictures?

    By all accounts I've heard, Ubuntu is as easy - often easier - to get to work as Windows.
    All the buzzt!
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  8. #68
    Hail to the king, baby. Akkernight's Avatar
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    Well, I've just found out that next year of school works on Linux, as in making your own OS or something :P So I'll just enjoy the simplicity of not doing anything about my OS until then
    Currently research OpenGL

  9. #69
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Well, everyone is different, I would agree, but I would just go mad with that method.
    Debuggers are heavenly to me. If I find a problem, typically I just fire up the debugger and find the problem.
    Consequently, I have gotten very good with debuggers, presumably due to my heavy use of VS's debugger.
    English is an amusing language, is it not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    And people still believe that Linux should replace Windows... Ha!
    They shall both exist, for a purpose. People are different.
    But erm... I think we got a little off topic on that one, too.
    Yeah, because them be weasel words. Who are you talking about and why do they matter to the conversation? I'm starting to get confused as to how we got here, but you said something else that I wanted to reply to more.

    Basically you expect "things should work from the start." Well, if you've got a computer, you've got a problem, really. There are horror stories for *nix, mac, and windows. In particular I still remember buying my first laptop in 1998, which failed to turn on. Before I even got to use it, it was in repairs due to hardware defects. What I learned from that experience is that there is only a definite line between working and broken for hardware; if software met everyone's needs for it's whole lifetime from the first shipment, then there wouldn't be a maintenance phase to software development.

    Not to mention that every piece of software has a learning curve. You still have to learn these interfaces. Before you explain that it's easy, it's really not, and minor changes (such as the ribbon toolbar in newer Office releases) can really alienate you initially. That goes for everything that has a design phase: it happened to toothpaste. One brand actually came out with a cap that pulled off. You could publish papers on how much time this saved and how many calories this burned, but in test marketing they dumped the product because everyone tried to twist off the toothpaste and got frustrated.

    You might have a hard time remembering things but no one said that you needed to be a *nix wizard. Remember, you can only spell hopeless with RTFM. What else is there to say? It's what you do to learn a GUI app (I hope).
    Last edited by whiteflags; 11-08-2008 at 11:38 AM.

  10. #70
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    Windows does have better out-of-the-box usability, I agree (though Ubuntu's getting pretty good!) Mac's another good one for nice-looking eye candy - the main reason I'm leaning towards Linux now is the freedom. Yeah I have to take some time to set things up the way I want, but at least I'm not getting a dumb "Cancel or Allow" box for everything. And better - I'm not being flat-out restricted with no chance to override something. It's my computer. I'm in charge - not Vista.

  11. #71
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citizen View Post
    Basically you expect "things should work from the start." Well, if you've got a computer, you've got a problem, really. There are horror stories for *nix, mac, and windows. In particular I still remember buying my first laptop in 1998, which failed to turn on. Before I even got to use it, it was in repairs due to hardware defects. What I learned from that experience is that there is only a definite line between working and broken for hardware; if software met everyone's needs for it's whole lifetime from the first shipment, then there wouldn't be a maintenance phase to software development.

    Not to mention that every piece of software has a learning curve. You still have to learn these interfaces.
    Ah yes, I am one of those who hates to read manuals and want to use my 1337 skills to understand things and find things right away. Typically, with good designed applications, it is possible.
    I hate to retort to a manual to find what I need. I just hate it...

    Before you explain that it's easy, it's really not, and minor changes (such as the ribbon toolbar in newer Office releases) can really alienate you initially. That goes for everything that has a design phase: it happened to toothpaste. One brand actually came out with a cap that pulled off. You could publish papers on how much time this saved and how many calories this burned, but in test marketing they dumped the product because everyone tried to twist off the toothpaste and got frustrated.
    Oh my goodness, yes. The ribbon. I hate the ribbon! I totally alienated me, and I simply cannot work with Office without a Classic Menu extension.
    Stupid move, and now they want more of them.

    You might have a hard time remembering things but no one said that you needed to be a *nix wizard. Remember, you can only spell hopeless with RTFM. What else is there to say? It's what you do to learn a GUI app (I hope).
    I'm hopeless with command lines and manual text editing
    I use help and manuals in GUI apps when there is something I do not understand, but it clicks in my brain much easier than command lines.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  12. #72
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Personally I use computers because they inspire the tech-savy in me. Not because I want to write a letter or do house balance without knowing the difference between Save and Save As...
    As such, "easy" is not the word I want to place at the top of my vocabulary.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  13. #73
    Woof, woof! zacs7's Avatar
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    Oh my goodness, yes. The ribbon. I hate the ribbon! I totally alienated me, and I simply cannot work with Office without a Classic Menu extension.
    Stupid move, and now they want more of them.
    Welcome to the world of Windows. If you have one ounce of computer know-how you'll be bashed for it. We actually had a usability engineer from Microsoft come to one of our lectures last semester, and I can assure you it the ribbon was tested (we watched videos). Just the audience testes was... biased.

    IMO it's stupid, because 'File' which has been around for countless years is now gone. It took me about 5 minutes to work out how to print ... and that was on an "express terminal".

  14. #74
    Hail to the king, baby. Akkernight's Avatar
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    I had most problems with the office cover thing, the box that hides the cd in it... Took me ages to open that, and I couldn't just break it open, 'cause my moms sister had bought it or something... But then, when I started Office I really thought they had been scammed with some stupid software, but it turns out it was the mroe 'advanced' office with better 'user friendliness', and now my mom knows better how to use it than me >.< and my mom is a computer hater, who has trouble using the internet.. I'm so ashamed :P
    Currently research OpenGL

  15. #75
    and the hat of copycat stevesmithx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    "You know what? I'm gonna go try Ubuntu..."
    The Matrix runs on Windows
    ROFL
    Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted
    - Albert Einstein.


    No programming language is perfect. There is not even a single best language; there are only languages well suited or perhaps poorly suited for particular purposes.
    - Herbert Mayer

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