About your programs...

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  1. #1
    Ugly C Lover audinue's Avatar
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    Smile About your programs...

    By the way... Which do you prefer?

    1. A good performance, pretty fast, efficient on memory consumption but lacks of conceptual features. Just like C.

    2. An easy to reuseable, extensible, well organized, reliable, etc.. etc.. but SLOW and HUGE memory consumption programs, for instance Java, .NET, Ruby...


    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audinue View Post
    1. A good performance, pretty fast, efficient on memory consumption but lacks of conceptual features. Just like C.
    I prefer excellent performance, very fast, efficient on memory and a great number of modern tools to make programming easier and more flexible, code reuse, well organized, reliable. Just like C++.

    2. An easy to reuseable, extensible, well organized, reliable, etc.. etc.. but SLOW and HUGE memory consumption programs, for instance Java, .NET, Ruby...
    They can go to the pit of doom for all I care.
    And I would not exactly call them well organized.
    As cpjust once quoted:
    Quote Originally Posted by cpjust View Post
    If C++ is 2 steps forward from C, then I'd say Java is 1 step forward and 2 steps back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  3. #3
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    I prefer either or neither depending on the problem being solved. A real answer to this question usually turns otherwise good people toward dogma, and restricts what they could do professionally.

  4. #4
    Dae
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    You're putting general labels on advanced subjects. It's not as easy as black and white.

    First of all, you're asking in the C forum, so you're asking C enthusiasts to defend their bias.

    Java
    C
    C++
    C#
    .NET
    Ruby
    Python
    JavaScript
    ActionScript

    They all have their own purposes.

    Note: this is just one of the many paths you can and will go down when considering a language for a particular project.

    If you want a quick, professional, easy to implement application without having to spend much time on the GUI, and more time on features, go with .NET and VC# or VC++. Examples: proxy finder application, browser app, torrent app, etc.

    Is VC++ too hard for you? Then it'd be C#, or even VB, haha.

    Now if you aren't sure, you re-assess your decision. Do you need cross-platform compatibility? If so, do you care about JVM being required, or will you distribute different executables for each system. Is Java's GUI and performance satisfactory?

    If not you might want to distribute a Windows, Linux, and Mac version. Which leaves you with C/C++. Does your project team have the time to use a low level language? If so, then you look into libraries, frameworks, etc. to find one that IS satisfactory (eg wxwidgets, sdl, etc.) Are any of them good enough or do you have to implement your own? eg. win32 for windows, whatever for linux, whatever for mac.

    Even after that, you may require the use of ASM, and that's something you need to consider even if you choose Java or C# or what have you. Anything you can't accomplish in the chosen language needs a DLL, or some linking, which means you need to know both languages, and if speed is a factor (usually isn't unless it's graphics/math).

    You take many different approaches on what you're to accomplish, and based on the requirements, and the language pros/cons, decide on the best choice for that particular project.

    Sometimes you might use a higher level language/library as a prototype for a lower level language with more control/speed.

    The fact of the matter is that it is all moot. As a software developer you should spend at least a few months working with all of these languages eventually, and you will understand then that each of them have their own pros/cons. You cannot start programming and swear off/avoid a particular language. That's just handicapping yourself.

    The best suggestion is choose your first language based on what's being taught in school, your education, or your work, because there is no "better" language here. You choose which language you decide you need to use/learn.

    Oh yeah, something you'll hear often is programming languages are just tools in a programmer's belt, he choose the best one for the job.

    Do you use a wrench to get a nail in the wall? It's fun, but use a hammer.
    Last edited by Dae; 11-01-2008 at 11:38 AM.
    Warning: Have doubt in anything I post.

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    The first one I'd say.
    Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.
    What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?
    All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.
    For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

  6. #6
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    I figure this would be about opinions, not the right tool for the right job (ie, which language do you like best)?
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  7. #7
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
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    I have moved this to General Discussions since it is not specifically about C.
    C + C++ Compiler: MinGW port of GCC
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    Look up a C++ Reference and learn How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

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    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    I figure this would be about opinions, not the right tool for the right job (ie, which language do you like best)?
    It's never about opinions and always about tools. Discussions like this are mostly unproductive and turn people into jerks, at least at this board. Think about what you would have done after your post:
    • someone gets offended
    • you defend your bias
    • someone tells you why your wrong
    • repeat


    What did you do constructively? It's all very pointless if you make it about opinions. No one can weigh a opinion's value anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by audinue View Post
    By the way... Which do you prefer?

    1. A good performance, pretty fast, efficient on memory consumption but lacks of conceptual features. Just like C.

    2. An easy to reuseable, extensible, well organized, reliable, etc.. etc.. but SLOW and HUGE memory consumption programs, for instance Java, .NET, Ruby...


    Thanks in advance.
    These things are not mutually exclusive. You can, with correct design, have small, efficient programs with extensibility, reliability. It's all about design, and about using the right tool for the job. Doing a layout for an application that is mainly the user-interface for some database application (e.g. customer support, payroll, and such) is a different job than writing a program that calculates PI with 4 million decimals, which in turn is a differnet task than a GUI framework for generic applications, and all of that is completely different from the engine management and ABS system in a car.

    Using THE RIGHT tool gets the job done easily. Using a screwdriver to hammer in a nail and using a hammer to screw in a screw will both be pretty unsuccessful - that doesn't mean that a hammer or a screwdriver is a poor tool - just that both of those examples are "bad usage" of the adequately designed tools.

    --
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    Compilers can produce warnings - make the compiler programmers happy: Use them!
    Please don't PM me for help - and no, I don't do help over instant messengers.

  10. #10
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citizen View Post
    It's never about opinions and always about tools. Discussions like this are mostly unproductive and turn people into jerks, at least at this board. Think about what you would have done after your post:
    Perhaps the OP is curious as to whether you like limited languages in terms of features or blazingly hard, but blazingly fast and efficient in speed and memory, or slow languages, huge memory consumption, where they keep holding your hand all the way.
    I mean, it is a curiosity by the OP, and we must be able to ask our mind, must we not?

    It is sad that we cannot discuss a favorite language without it getting out of hand today, so we will just have to hope that it does get too far out of hand this time.
    I simply responded to the question about my preferences, not about stating a language which is better than another practically.

    What did you do constructively? It's all very pointless if you make it about opinions. No one can weigh a opinion's value anymore.
    You can blame me if you want, but the point of the reply was to say "C is old, deprecated and of no use, use C++ instead", just in a polite way (in my own view, and opinion).
    Because truthfully, I would like a little of both point 1 & 2.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  11. #11
    Dae
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    If it was about opinions why would you ask C vs Java on the damn C board. That makes no sense.

    Anyway, there should be no distinction between opinion and the right tool for the job. My opinion is that each language is a useful tool for a certain job. Not one language is better than the other in general. Specific tasks. Name the problem/project, and we'll tell you which language is a better solution for that problem. If any (and sometimes it doesn't matter which).

    Edit: He gave a 1 or 2 question, not a list the pros/cons Elysia.
    Warning: Have doubt in anything I post.

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  12. #12
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dae View Post
    If it was about opinions why would you ask C vs Java on the damn C board. That makes no sense.
    Because generally people do post things in the wrong section?
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  13. #13
    Dae
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Because generally people do post things in the wrong section?
    He knew what he was doing. Follow his posts.
    Warning: Have doubt in anything I post.

    GCC 4.5, Boost 1.40, Code::Blocks 8.02, Ubuntu 9.10 010001000110000101100101

  14. #14
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    I do not know what "he" was doing, and I am uncertain what posts you were referring to. So whatever the motive, there are a range of posts, mostly describing the right tool for the right job, so I am just going to go standby until the true intentions of the OP comes to light. Until then I am going to assume it is about opinions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  15. #15
    Woof, woof! zacs7's Avatar
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    I'd say that Java is a lot better suited than C++ in many cases, and industry seems to agree. For example, bank programs, finance applications, web-side programs, simulators, etc. But that's not to say it can take the place of C++, no sir.

    Why wouldn't you want your application to be extremely portable? To platforms you've never heard of or can't have access to develop/compile on?

    Note: Before you try and bash my post Elysia, do some research and also note I did not say C++ is better than Java or vice-versa.

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