So what are your plans for the next 70 years...?

This is a discussion on So what are your plans for the next 70 years...? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4715612.stm "I found out that the US military use Windows," said Mr McKinnon in that BBC interview. "And having realised ...

  1. #1
    &TH of undefined behavior Fordy's Avatar
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    So what are your plans for the next 70 years...?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4715612.stm

    "I found out that the US military use Windows," said Mr McKinnon in that BBC interview. "And having realised this, I assumed it would probably be an easy hack if they hadn't secured it properly."

  2. #2
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Interesting the fact an UK citizen can be extradited from his home country to face trial in a foreign country for a crime he committed while in UK.

    EDIT: And up to 70 years for what he did? Are they insane and truly wish to put to jail for the rest of his life an hacker (not even a cracker he was)?
    Last edited by Mario F.; 07-30-2008 at 09:18 AM.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

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    maybe it has something to do with the US and the uk being allies and if the military saw this as an attack this could be asserted as a crime in both countries?

    I don't know, hacking military computers, secure or not, would bring about some bad attention.

    I bet 50 he'll "disappear" X-Files style.
    Here to Deceive, Inveigle, Obfuscate Since 1945

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    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    US law is clear. The crime takes place at the point of the crime, not at the point of commision of the crimal act. If I fire a bullet from georgia and it kills a man in south carolina, the crime (manslaughter/murder) took place in SC.

    If I send internet packets from the UK and it causes system instability in the US, the crime (hacking) took place in the US. Since the initial act is not illegal, only the end result.

    Besides, he commited the crime in the Jurisdiction of the US
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

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    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Yes. I was thinking about that just now. But still it would be necessary for UK to accept that foreign law (which apparently it does).

    No matter what, it's the government task to protect his citizens and necessarily fight against such extraditions always preferring to trial and have them face sentence in their home country. If the crime had been particularly serious, I would think it would make sense. But this bloke?

    USA has a better tradition of protecting his citizens against extradition, than UK apparently.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

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    Anyone else think he'll cop a plea to work for the US doing the same thing to other countries?

    This could be more like job recruitment than prosecution. Sign him up.
    Last edited by medievalelks; 07-30-2008 at 10:25 AM.

  7. #7
    &TH of undefined behavior Fordy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    Interesting the fact an UK citizen can be extradited from his home country to face trial in a foreign country for a crime he committed while in UK.
    Just another daft aspect of Mr. Blair's love affair with Bush.

    The UK & USA signed an extradition treaty to supposedly make it easier to extradite people between countries.

    There used to be a need for the USA to provide prima facie evidence to allow them to extradite a British Citizen. This treaty did away with that.

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    &TH of undefined behavior Fordy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    Yes. I was thinking about that just now. But still it would be necessary for UK to accept that foreign law (which apparently it does).

    No matter what, it's the government task to protect his citizens and necessarily fight against such extraditions always preferring to trial and have them face sentence in their home country. If the crime had been particularly serious, I would think it would make sense. But this bloke?

    USA has a better tradition of protecting his citizens against extradition, than UK apparently.
    The difference is:

    UK - sentence under Computer Misuse Act - 5 Years in prison & unlimited fine

    USA - 60 (or 70 - depends which journalist is counting) Years and treated as a terrorist.

    The crimes are certainly against UK law and could be tried here, but they are making an example of him and the UK Govt is allowing it to happen.

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    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Geebus! That's over 50 years in difference minimum!
    Bet he can sue the hell of UK government in the European Court of Human Rights if he ever gets the ruling to be extradited. If I'm not mistaken by filing the complain alone he will stop the extradition.

    The problem with this USA administration (and some of the hawks still in a position to pull these type of strings) is that chauffeurs, disgruntled Australian citizens, and low note British hackers is the best they can come up with in their quest to find the responsible for 07/11. It's becoming a sad circus that is already nauseating the rest of the world. I really can't wait for December!
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  10. #10
    &TH of undefined behavior Fordy's Avatar
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    >>Bet he can sue the hell of UK government in the European Court of Human Rights if he ever gets the ruling to be extradited. If I'm not mistaken by filing the complain alone he will stop the extradition.

    It's already been tested in the ECoHR and failed. Lookup the "Natwest 3"

  11. #11
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    I wouldn't call it quits though Fordy. The fact he risks facing a sentence over 10x more what he would face in UK is a strong case in his defense. Extradition laws exist usually under some considerations of equal or similar treatment and rulings.

    Over here for instance - as in UK, I'm pretty sure regarding extradition to a number of other countries - a Portuguese citizen (even if with double nationality) can only be extradited to the USA if the crime he committed over there doesn't risk death sentence and he also doesn't risk a jail sentence over the maximum jail sentence currently in Portugal (25 years). On any other case he gets tried and faces sentence in Portugal. This bloke could never be extradited to USA.

    In any case, were I him I would do anything to not have to face an American court of law on these charges and with this type of potential sentence. With all due respect to my fellow Americans who I don't think have anything to do with it - and paraphrasing you-know-who - I think the country is currently being ran by "drunk people".
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  12. #12
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    OK, the fact is there is no vast terrorist conspiracy, but you can't tell the public that. The fact that 9/11 was perpetrated by 12 angry men would scare the crap out of everyone, they couldnt handle it. Its much easier to tell them those 12 guys were just the boobs working for 'Al Qaeda'. Because if you can identify the enemy, he becomes much less scary. The fact that the fabric of society is coming apart at the seams, we are repeating the conditions that led to The Great Depression and the refusal of the wealthy to accept limits on their economic activities, sounds like a bunch of high brow doomsaying and is easily dismissed.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  13. #13
    &TH of undefined behavior Fordy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    I wouldn't call it quits though Fordy. The fact he risks facing a sentence over 10x more what he would face in UK is a strong case in his defense. Extradition laws exist usually under some considerations of equal or similar treatment and rulings.

    Over here for instance - as in UK, I'm pretty sure regarding extradition to a number of other countries - a Portuguese citizen (even if with double nationality) can only be extradited to the USA if the crime he committed over there doesn't risk death sentence and he also doesn't risk a jail sentence over the maximum jail sentence currently in Portugal (25 years). On any other case he gets tried and faces sentence in Portugal. This bloke could never be extradited to USA.

    In any case, were I him I would do anything to not have to face an American court of law on these charges and with this type of potential sentence. With all due respect to my fellow Americans who I don't think have anything to do with it - and paraphrasing you-know-who - I think the country is currently being ran by "drunk people".
    Well you have more faith in his chances than I do. The Natwest 3 case I mentioned involved 3 bankers involved in a fraud based in America (linked to Enron) that defrauded a UK bank. At that time the treaty was signed at our end without going through parliament but wasnt enforceable on American citizens (it was still being debated by the Senate) and every possible appeal avenue was made - including the European Court of Human Rights and the House of Lords. Most people expected someone to stop the extradition because it was so one sided, but it went through.

    In 2006 the Senate ratified the treaty so it became enforceable at both ends. Following that, the only chance you have of not being extradited under similar circumstances is if the UK CPS decides to prosecute you in the UK (which it has refused to do in both of the cases mentioned) or if the Government over here decided to rip up the treaty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    It's becoming a sad circus that is already nauseating the rest of the world. I really can't wait for December!
    You and the terrorists both. They long for an administration weaker even than Clinton, that will prosecute acts of terrorism as civil crime, give away intelligence, and turn a blind eye to the mounting threat as the UK is today.

  15. #15
    &TH of undefined behavior Fordy's Avatar
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    >>turn a blind eye to the mounting threat as the UK is today

    How did you come to that conclusion?

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