torrents are destroying the world

This is a discussion on torrents are destroying the world within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Have you noticed how much damage torrents are doing to the internet? People dont buy any software any more, they ...

  1. #1
    Registered User Trennto's Avatar
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    torrents are destroying the world

    Have you noticed how much damage torrents are doing to the internet? People dont buy any software any more, they just get the torrent. I know a guy who has gigs of music for free, MS Word 2008 for free, the full Adobe CS3 set for free, tons of PC games (Civ4, Crysis, GoW, ect.) an anti-virus, the list goes on for ever... and it's all registered with a cracked serial too.

    Torrents need to be stopped somehow, software developers and musicians are being screwed every day... it's just not right (or legal). How much money has been stolen? WAY too much.
    "Never be afraid to try, remember...
    Amateurs built the ark
    Professionals built the Titanic" - Unknown

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    "The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese" - Steven Wright

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    To be honest I can see how people download software. It is not reasonable to expect all people to pay the incredible amount of money some of them cost.

    How do you expect students to learn say 3ds max when the software is so incredible expensive?

    On the other side, I cant say I like it when I see companies using Pirated software.

  3. #3
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Should be on the GD board.
    But no, it's not the end of the world. Just business as usual. Illegal software drives the industry too... in some twisted way, but it does.

    I would think that the industry that do suffer from torrents the most is the printing industry. They simply don't have many alternatives and don't benefit indirectly from piracy as do the software and music industries.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  4. #4
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
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    Moved to GD.
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  5. #5
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    A problem with software these days is that they demand a huge amount of money.
    Adding it up, the costs are incredible.
    And some are just too happy to steal from companies they hate (eg Microsoft).
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    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    Please, spare me the drama. Most games cost like $20 and you can always find deals. I guess people have special needs, but I really don't see a reason to sound the alarm. Most people don't need much more than a word processor and maybe some digital imaging software. There are still very successful suites out there because people are still spending money for them.

    Most people probably think Bit Torrent is a problem because they're either around it too much or they don't understand how it's useful abiding by the law. OpenOffice releases torrents for instance.

  7. #7
    &TH of undefined behavior Fordy's Avatar
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    >>OpenOffice releases torrents for instance.

    As do many opensource apps including some flavours of Linux.

    These days, if I want something and dont want to shell out cash for it I look around for an open source alternative. And with games I agree that they are cheap enough and available everywhere

    The only app I feel I really have to buy is Excel as I use it more than anything else due to my job. The openoffice version is fine, but most of the features of Excel are second nature to me now so I always end up buying it in some form or other.

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    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    Games are so abundantly available and affordable I cannot see any excuse for stealing them. I do not approve of the invasive copy protection systems some utilize but this small petty argument still does not give anyone the right to just blatantly steal games.

    Some apps are very costly but I must admit that 'most' of the costly apps actually do come with a great deal of functionality. Microsoft Office has a great deal of usefulness that you just can't find in OpenSource versions. Autodesk apps are extremely expensive but oh so powerful. Blender, Milkshape, TrueSpace, GameSpace, etc. don't come close. Maya is actually very good and on par with 3DS Max. Adobe also has some very high price items but I've never been dissatisfied with any of their applications. I also would be lost without MSVS and the functonality it provides. The other day I went back to RHIDE for a bit to tinker and realized how spoiled I've become by MSVS.

    Create premium products and you can demand premium prices.
    Last edited by VirtualAce; 07-04-2008 at 12:29 PM.

  9. #9
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    And in the end, $700 is not that much money if one saves for it, instead of spending in it. It may seem not, but there's a big difference. I'm proud of my collection of licensed software. All bought through savings.

    I downloaded illegal software and used it a few times. I did it however because I wasn't satisfied with the evaluation restrictions or the period and couldn't get an extension (like so many companies do if we so much send an email and ask). But this is rare. In any case, the idea was always to either buy the software (which I did on many occasions) or to uninstall it after testing it fully.

    On the matter of games, I'm blessed with my usual casual attitude towards this type of software. Sometimes a title catches my eye and I simply ignore it until it shows on stores for half the price 12 or 24 months later with all expansion packs. Done deal.
    Last edited by Mario F.; 07-04-2008 at 12:55 PM.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  10. #10
    and the hat of wrongness Salem's Avatar
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    So what if someones archived 1000+ games, how many of them actually get played "at all"?

    Or maybe for 5 minutes before "meh, I'm bored with this" or "this sucks" before moving on to something else (and not deleting it). If you've got TB of disk space, you're not going to stress over deleting a few old games which originally came on a floppy.

    Sure if someone plays a game for weeks without paying for it, then that's wrong. But then so is over-hyped marketing for 2nd rate games which I'd wish I'd never paid money for.

    All the s/w I use is either GNU or paid for (where I find it either necessary or genuinely useful).

    > Microsoft Office has a great deal of usefulness that you just can't find in OpenSource versions.
    Yeah, and 90&#37; of it never gets used by 90% of the users, but they all end up paying for it in the end. The only way MS can survive is by bloating the s/w with more and more features so they can keep wheeling out the cash cow for another milking. There's a joke that emacs makes a great OS, all it needs is a decent editor. The same could be soon said of msword.

    If you're a multinational, then yes you can make use of a lot of office features, but the home / SOHO / SME types don't need the vast array of features (nor have the time to RTFM to find them out). They can easily get by with OO for example.
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  11. #11
    Registered User Trennto's Avatar
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    I discovered torrents a long while ago and I've had my share of downloads, but I previously bought civ4 for $60 then later found the torrent free and with both expansions. $60 may not seem much to you, but to a 15 year-old gamer like me, wasting $60 on something that I could get free is very frustrating. And it's not just $60, I found things like the whole Adobe CS3 package for free, now THATS a big deal. Going to a website and stealing a couple thousand dollars with a click of a button with no consequences seems like a pretty big deal.

    It adds up, you know... and not everyone only downloads every now and then to test something. Most people that find torrents download everything from them. They see that they dont need to pay for software or music any more. I have my doubts using money on any computer software any more since I know that I can get it for free, no strings attached. Torrents are much larger a problem then most people realize.
    Last edited by Trennto; 07-04-2008 at 03:22 PM.
    "Never be afraid to try, remember...
    Amateurs built the ark
    Professionals built the Titanic" - Unknown

    "If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging." - Will Rogers

    "The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese" - Steven Wright

  12. #12
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Picture Adobe... That's quite a successful business, wouldn't you agree? So... what's wrong with this picture of torrents being a problem?

    Yes, downloading illegal software without any kind of consequence is not only a big problem. It's in fact a huge problem that our society will eventually pay dearly. But it's a social issue, not an economical one. We are living in a time and using a medium in which crime pays and our youngsters are not only being shown it does pay, but also actively encouraged to participate from very tender ages. I'm appalled at the age of some of the people spending a major part of their online time downloading, ripping, or publishing movies, music, software or books. Sometimes, all this being done right in front of their parents noses who smile at their offspring skills with the computer. "Look dad. Ain't it cool? It's not even on theaters yet. Want to watch too?" I'm no psychologists or sociologist, but I'd bet my typing fingers this will eventually come and bite us right in our buttocks.

    But I pity not the companies. They benefit enormously from this type of crime... and although not visibly, they secretly endorse it, I could almost bet. Do you think Adobe could reach nearly a billion in sales if it wasn't for piracy? Think again. What's the gospel of marketing? How much money do you think a company is losing when their products are being advertised for them for free? How much value do you think a company has when their products are used all over the web be it from illegal or legal copies? How do you position yourself when trying to negotiate with such a company or how do you think investors will look at such a company? What do you think happens to their stock shares?... I could go on forever...

    Certainly this last paragraph is open for debate. But I wouldn't try it without a very strong case. The question is in fact, how much do these companies benefit and how much do they endorse it behind closed doors?

    You want to know who really suffers with piracy?

    - Open Source is one. The main arguments of the OS movement and its ideals get lost in the unfair competition of an seemingly unstoppable and ever growing criminal activity. I sometimes think how many Open Source projects are running at a loss these days simply because they can't compete with commercial software prices any more? Sadly ironic.

    - Indie companies. Same problem. They can't compete with the huge development teams and nearly unlimited resources of the big companies in their garage when those products are being "sold" at price 0 and still adding to their gains. Although some indie developers are them too starting to play around with the concept...

    - We. As I said before, this general feeling of getting away with murder is becoming ingrained in the minds of a whole generation. It will eventually crash down in our heads. I just don't don't know how or when.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  13. #13
    Registered User Trennto's Avatar
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    Well said Mario.

    Here's an interesting sentence from Mario's second link:
    "That record of success has led many experts and software companies to regard piracy as less of a problem than initially assumed or even part of a comprehensive strategy"

    Even with piracy possibly helping companies like Microsoft, it's still a problem that extends far beyond money. It's a moral problem that will grow steadily in each generation as stealing will become more and more simple and "innocent". In my opinion, we have to attack the source of this, and hard. If Microsoft wants to give away products, by all means let them do that, but not through a system that opens doors for all kinds of theft.
    Last edited by Trennto; 07-04-2008 at 06:12 PM.
    "Never be afraid to try, remember...
    Amateurs built the ark
    Professionals built the Titanic" - Unknown

    "If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging." - Will Rogers

    "The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese" - Steven Wright

  14. #14
    Woof, woof! zacs7's Avatar
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    Not to mention with movies there is a period of time that you can't see the movie, even if you wanted to. Ie from the movies -> DVD there is usually a gap of a few months.

  15. #15
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacs7 View Post
    Not to mention with movies there is a period of time that you can't see the movie, even if you wanted to. Ie from the movies -> DVD there is usually a gap of a few months.
    I know several websites that have movies up the day of release in the theaters. Granted they are a guy filming in a theater (which, to this day, I still can't understand how people watch), but after 24 hours of being up on those websites, they each tend to have 20,000-30,000 hits. That is a lot of revenue that the industry isn't getting.

    I think it's silly to single out torrents for this arguement. They are just a single medium in the whole piracy problem. People complain about the price of things, but they seem to not understand that they contribute to this problem. If everyone purchased the software legally, then the publishers would have less reason to increase the price of the next version. Secondly, if people would just not use software that they can't afford rather than stealing it and learning it, then that particular software would have less penetration in its industry because there are less people that know the software and businesses would not be buying so many volume licenses for it. This should ultimately force the publisher to lower the cost of the software so that they can attract more consumers to buy and learn their product.

    There is no doubt that piracy is an issue but I just can't see a reasonable solution for it. You can beg the world to stop stealing but who's going to listen. People have grown accustom to having everything they want handed to them for free.
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