torrents are destroying the world

This is a discussion on torrents are destroying the world within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; I agree totally with that. Not that it's okay, but you right on....

  1. #121
    Unregistered User Yarin's Avatar
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    I agree totally with that. Not that it's okay, but you right on.
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  2. #122
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    I agree, for Holywood, music labels and software companies, it actually makes no difference if someone pirates their products or just doesn't buy them. They wouldn't make revenue anyway. Though free advertising and if someone hears music at a friend's or plays a game or watches a movie there and likes it, he'll probably end up buying it.
    Although theres the possibility of the friend pirating the software (or music or movie - no matter what it's all just 0s and 1s) as well. But the chain doesn't stop there.

    No matter what, I wouldn't rely too much on that "advertising-strategy". It definitely works but I'm not totaly convinced by it. But that doesn't matter anyway, if you code a program it's either FOSS or gets pirated.

  3. #123
    The Right Honourable psychopath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F.
    The DMCA is a law, CornedBee. Not something you are meant to agree or not and don't respect just because you don't agree.
    If enough people stop respecting a particular law, doesn't it eventually become a sort of protest?
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  4. #124
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Possibly, yes. Civil disobedience. And that is definitely a way to go on what concerns the DMCA in my opinion. EDIT: Meanwhile, as far as I understand there's already more effective measures underway.

    But there's a huge difference between me disrespecting the DMCA by making backup copies of software I acquire and publicly claiming I did so as a sign of protest, and someone using the DMCA for their own profit as that russian guy was doing.
    Last edited by Mario F.; 07-10-2008 at 08:33 PM.
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    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  5. #125
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    Civil disobedience is not the answer imo. Well, unless a lot of people do it.
    but if not, this is just as useless as demonstrating agains carnivores or the iraq war - it just happens. (Don't get me wrong, I'm not an advocate of the iraq war and I don't want a discussion )

    By the way, in Germany, civil disobedience violates &#167;113 of the StGB (StrafGesetzBuch = Criminal Code) which can cause an imprisonment from 6 months to 5 years depending of the severity. Though you'd need to involve violence or even murder to get a penalty of 5 years. But 6 months is still a lot just for protesting agains not being allowed to make a backup. I'm afraid I don't even know how this is handled in here, but I worry that taking a backup of copyprotected material is illegal too.

    But I've got another idea. Why not being careful with ones belongings? You wouldn't need a backup. I mean if I've got e.g. an original game but break it and have to use a backup, it's just not the same. Using the original disk feels better. But from a user-right-activist's PoV this is bogus, I admit. The user needs the right to keep a backup, copyprotection or not - caring about the original or not.
    I just realised that this would be like the "I've got nothing to hide"-mentalitiy regarding privacy and governmental observation. It's just wrong.

    But still we shouldn't blame the government for this and practice civil disobedience (at least that's what I'd say about the german copyright laws). We should rather act against those companies who place the copy-protection on the media. If they want to decrease software piracy, well and good, but not on the expense of the paying customer!

  6. #126
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Civil disobedience is a legitimate form of protest. One of the more effective ones as well. If everyone just complained abotu the law, but followed it anyway, there woudl be no incentive whatsoever for teh governemtn to change the law (let them eat cake). The government maintains control only through the illusion that they are in control. Civil disobedience goes directly against this illusion, therefor it is in the governemnts best interest to maintain the illusion by 'giving in'. Because by doign so they maintain the illusion that social attitudes require their approval to be 'ok'. Only an incompetent government woudl fail to do so, going agaisnt the wishes of its populous.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  7. #127
    the hat of redundancy hat nvoigt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkruk View Post
    By the way, in Germany, civil disobedience violates §113 of the StGB (StrafGesetzBuch = Criminal Code) which can cause an imprisonment from 6 months to 5 years depending of the severity. Though you'd need to involve violence or even murder to get a penalty of 5 years. But 6 months is still a lot just for protesting agains not being allowed to make a backup.
    No, it's not. §113 says that you can get an imprisonment of up two two years or a fine for physically assaulting a member of the executive (police or armed forces) while on duty. If your resistance involves a potentially deadly weapon or the person attacked was in danger of being killed or seriously injured it is considered a major case and imprisonment is for 6 months to 5 years. So as long as you don't grab a stack of CDs and hit a police officer over the head with it, §113 should be of no concern to you. Matter of fact, I'd say the definition of physical violence or threat of physical violence as a base for §113 makes it highly unlikely that it will ever be used against civil disobedience, which is defined as "the active refusal to obey certain laws, demands and commands of a government, or of an occupying power, without resorting to physical violence."
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  8. #128
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    It goes basically like this -

    1. An unpopular law gets passed.
    2. Civil discourse over problems with the law.
    3. Vocal protests agaist the law.
    4. Civil Disobedience.
    5. Armed disobedience.
    6. Revolution.
    7. New government.

    Rinse and repeat.

    Each stage, it gets more and more expensive for the goverment to maintain control. Eventually the law gets changed anyway, its only a matter of whether the current goerment does so, or the next one.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  9. #129
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abachler View Post
    It goes basically like this -

    1. An unpopular law gets passed.
    2. Civil discourse over problems with the law.
    3. Vocal protests agaist the law.
    4. Civil Disobedience.
    5. Armed disobedience.
    6. Revolution.
    7. New government.

    Rinse and repeat.

    Each stage, it gets more and more expensive for the goverment to maintain control. Eventually the law gets changed anyway, its only a matter of whether the current goerment does so, or the next one.
    How can you fight with shovels and axes against heavy weaponry?

  10. #130
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    How can you fight with shovels and axes against heavy weaponry?
    Most history books have several examples of this.

  11. #131
    Cat without Hat CornedBee's Avatar
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    In most of those examples those with the shovels get slaughtered.
    All the buzzt!
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  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by CornedBee View Post
    In most of those examples those with the shovels get slaughtered.
    Even if some of them get slaughtered, they can still prevail. Look at the Bolsheviki or Ghandi

  13. #133
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    Torrents are still a good option to get stuff that is hard to get anywhere else. Like how else do you suppose to get some obscure TV show that aired a number of years ago. In Australia we get TV series aired at least 2 years after the norther hemisphere gets them. with torents, you can get them for free! Torrents are also easier to get, going to the store and buying the thing you have to worry about paying, exercise etc. So no torrents are not destroying the world, capitalism is. Hence Socialism is a better option! I will personally see that a brick hits my head when I can no longer dl torents.
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  14. #134
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P4R4N01D View Post
    Torrents are still a good option to get stuff that is hard to get anywhere else. Like how else do you suppose to get some obscure TV show that aired a number of years ago. In Australia we get TV series aired at least 2 years after the norther hemisphere gets them. with torents, you can get them for free! Torrents are also easier to get, going to the store and buying the thing you have to worry about paying, exercise etc. So no torrents are not destroying the world, capitalism is. Hence Socialism is a better option! I will personally see that a brick hits my head when I can no longer dl torents.
    ...

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  15. #135
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxorator View Post
    How can you fight with shovels and axes against heavy weaponry?
    Asymetric Warfare
    Guerilla Warfare
    Subversion
    War of attrition
    Assassination
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

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