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This is a discussion on I... within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; just don't know what to say with the recent death of a 42 year old woman in an USA hospital. ...

  1. #1
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    I...

    just don't know what to say with the recent death of a 42 year old woman in an USA hospital. I'm completely shocked at the cruel coldness of the images and what they revealed.

    This is not, I can guarantee you, new. A little all over the world we hear these stories here and there. Just this year, a 82 year old woman died in a Portuguese hospital after begging for help (yes help! in an hospital) for 4 hours. She was waiting her turn... and died on the bench, just like today.

    I confess I shed a tear then, as I did today, when I saw of this poor woman fall to the floor and die there, alone, in an hospital of all places, as people passed by and others distanced themselves. As security personel and even a doctor looked at her agonizing body as if it was a paper someone thrown at the floor, and kept on moving their way, completely oblivious to the fact a human being (f...!) was dying on the floor.

    That woman had the most cruel death I have ever witnessed in my entire life. I swear she had. I was in Angola in '92 and saw some pretty ugly sights... very ugly... but at least in a war there's passion. She didn't even had that. She had the worst treatment one can give an human being. She was poor, disposable, ugly and she was sick. She was useless and a nuisance. She was black trash not worth society's effort, despite the fact she most probably worked more in a single day than a singer of football player works in an year.

    What the hell is happening to us!?
    What is this hellish thing we call society? When will it stop?... and I will say it right here... when will we BEAR ARMS!?

    some days... some days I just hate everyone.
    Last edited by Mario F.; 07-02-2008 at 02:04 PM.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  2. #2
    l'Anziano DavidP's Avatar
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    Could you please link to an article of some kind so we could see the source of what you're talking about?
    My Website

    "Circular logic is good because it is."

  3. #3
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Please dont feed the troll, he QQ's about this sort of thing every now and then. He rarely posts his source, almost never checks it, and generally exagerates it.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

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    BTW, I am saddened, but unfortunately not surprised by this situation. Even human beings with good intentions can allow such tragedies to occur right before their eyes.

    I certainly don't think bearing arms is the answer, and in fact that would be an example of the problem, not a solution to it.

  6. #6
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abachler View Post
    Please dont feed the troll, he QQ's about this sort of thing every now and then. He rarely posts his source, almost never checks it, and generally exagerates it.
    The fact that you don't focus on the case and only talk about sources shows you're just another bureaucrat, who thinks numbers and papers are more important than human lives...

  7. #7
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    I saw it on national tv over here. Hence no linking. Thanks for that Daved.

    As for you Abachler, I'm not impressed, as usual.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

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    Hey, doctors and nurses in the US are forbidden to help a baby that survives a late term abortion, and some politicians support that because they need the money and support from the abortion lobby. We've truly lost our humanity.

  9. #9
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    Apparently this hospital has had a bad history of mistreatment of psych patients. I would not take this one isolated incident and generalize it to the state of the entire U.S. health care system. This is a terrible tragedy but action is being taken to ensure this never happens again. Overall health care in the U.S.A, while not cheap, is very very good. There are mishaps, negligence, and accidents but no system is perfect.

    I went to the emergency room on a weekend for a toothache and only waited for about 20 minutes before being treated and released. They gave me a shot for the pain and it held me until I could get to the dentist on Monday.

    While on a trip I had a rock fly into my eye while on the highway. Don't ask me how this happened but the rock flew off someone's tire and sailed through my half-open driver side window and hit me right in the eye. I went to the ER and was out within the hour with a shot, prescription, and referral should things not improve. It was VERY expensive but my company paid for most of it even though it was out of my network.

    I took my wife in when she was entering labor and she was wheeled into a room, placed in bed and hooked up so we could hear the baby's heartbeat all within 10 minutes of arriving at the hospital. This happened at around 1pm which is certainly not the best time in the world. No complaints here.

    A co-worker went in for open-heart surgery and didn't even have to be moved to a more advanced hospital. Our local hospital did the surgery right there (most now have heart clinics) with a new special procedure that allows for quicker recovery and is less traumatic on the patient. The surgery was 9 hours and he was on his feet within a week.

    Let's not take one incident and use it as a measuring stick for the whole. And...remember...the U.S media loves this stuff. The more negative the better b/c the better it sells. They usually get the story wrong and/or exaggerate it beyond belief. This story is indeed sad and I'm not excusing the hospital's actions. But I am throwing in a reality check that this is not the norm.

    Hey, doctors and nurses in the US are forbidden to help a baby that survives a late term abortion, and some politicians support that because they need the money and support from the abortion lobby.
    I absolutely detest late term abortions. However it should also be cited that this is the law and by helping the baby survive is against the wishes of the patient and against the law. If you feel this is hideous as I do then perhaps we need to elect better politicians. This does not reflect on the state of U.S. health care and is more about a pro-choice/pro-abortion battle that has been waged for years. The health agencies MUST follow the letter of the law and if this is law then they follow it. Let's hope we get our head's our of our butt's and start electing people who are fit for the task so we can stop this nonsense. So don't blame your health care system...blame Capitol Hill. Besides it was my last understanding that late term abortions were illegal.
    Last edited by VirtualAce; 07-02-2008 at 06:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
    I absolutely detest late term abortions. However it should also be cited that this is the law and by helping the baby survive is against the wishes of the patient and against the law. If you feel this is hideous as I do then perhaps we need to elect better politicians. This does not reflect on the state of U.S. health care and is more about a pro-choice/pro-abortion battle that has been waged for years. The health agencies MUST follow the letter of the law and if this is law then they follow it. Let's hope we get our head's our of our butt's and start electing people who are fit for the task so we can stop this nonsense. So don't blame your health care system...blame Capitol Hill. Besides it was my last understanding that late term abortions were illegal.
    Sorry, I wasn't blaming the HCS, but the politicians and the pro-abortion movement. Sad thing is, a baby born naturally premature at the same stage is considered a patient.

  11. #11
    Woof, woof! zacs7's Avatar
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    It's obvious (to me anyway) why the doctors didn't help. It's a phsyc ward, they probably get people groaning and laying on the floor all the time. Don't flame me

    In a way it's like crying wolf, except they probably don't know they're crying wolf.
    Last edited by zacs7; 07-03-2008 at 01:53 AM.

  12. #12
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxorator View Post
    The fact that you don't focus on the case and only talk about sources shows you're just another bureaucrat, who thinks numbers and papers are more important than human lives...
    1000 people is a number too. So which is more humane, focusing on numbers or on the individual. Is it more humane to let 1000 people die to save 1? At some level you have to go by the numbers becuase it is the only way to avoid playing god and making judgements on peoples relative worth. What about the 3 people that might have died if they had stopped to help what statistically is not an emergency.

    The two deaths, which occurred at hospitals in Los Angeles and New York, have led to lawsuits and ultimately helped precipitate the closure of one of the facilities, reports said.
    So how many people are going to die now because there is no hospital anymore because emoitionalist decisions were made.

    SO what was she there for, obviously no doctors ignored her, as the article stated only other rpatients and a security guard who I'm sure isnt just moon lighting from his normal job as head of surgery. It was a psychiatric hospital to begin with, which means you GET patients with attention seeking behavioral disorders. None of this was discussed in the article, becuase it doesnt make for sensational news stories. Was she even checked in or was she dumped there by her so called concerned family members, who I am sure will cry crocodile tears at her funeral while they count how much they can get from a lawsuit. What is truly sad isnt that she died, but that the media, the public at large and Mario F. treat her death with such casual indifference that they cant even be bothered to investigate it beyond the sensationalist surface story.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  13. #13
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Your logic is astounding. "Attention seeking disorder"... precious insight. It is well explained now. After all she deserved to die on those conditions. Being a psychiatric hospital, they can't be blamed.

    As far as investigation... I would suggest you did it yourself. The more detailed video cuts show at one time a doctor also coming in, looking at her in the floor and going away.

    But where you really shine is here:

    Quote Originally Posted by abachler
    Was she even checked in or was she dumped there by her so called concerned family members, who I am sure will cry crocodile tears at her funeral while they count how much they can get from a lawsuit.
    In here you say it all. Do you remember your first post on this thread? You said "He rarely posts his source, almost never checks it, and generally exagerates it." [sic] So... who's speaking of what they don't know? You, of course. How about I ask you to not exaggerate and to not bring into the discussion things you can't prove or support?

    Attention seeking indeed.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  14. #14
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    Yeah, some hospitals can be pretty bad.

    I work at Methodist down here in Houston, and I'm very happy to say that none of that happens here. It's to the point that even if someone is dying and family can't be there, employees volunteer time to spend with the person, no one died alone.

  15. #15
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    There are a lot of people here talking about this that I would like to provide a little insight to. I am sure many of the readers are knowledgeable enough to recognize that this is not a representation of all heath care facilities in the United States. However, I'm sure some, specifically the European members with how their local media is portraying this would get the assumption that this kind of thing happens a lot here and that this is an every day kind of situation somewhere in the country.

    So, speaking as a person that grew up in Brooklyn, I should probably explain a little bit about Kings County Hospital, which was located about 20-30 minutes from my home. Virtually everyone in the entire city of New York would consider Kings County Hospital to be one of the worst, if not the worst, hospital in New York and as far as we knew, the country. Kids used to make jokes about the idea of dying in the waiting room if they ever had to go there, though I never though I'd live to see the day it actually happened. It is located in an extremely bad area (Flatbush) and tends to the extremely desperate people. Even many people from the area that had virtually no money would attempt to avoid that hospital if possible. Anyway, I'm not making any excuses for what happened, I'm just trying to explain that this video was no nearly as shocking to me having known this hospital from my childhood.
    Sent from my iPad®

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