Gearing up for Firefox 3

This is a discussion on Gearing up for Firefox 3 within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by Elysia This would in turn bring up another question - seeing as Firefox is the challenger, doesn't ...

  1. #76
    & the hat of GPL slaying Thantos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    This would in turn bring up another question - seeing as Firefox is the challenger, doesn't that mean that it must bring quality that Internet Explorer does not?
    I would believe that most use IE6 simply has the mainstream base because of casual users who don't know about FF or simply just surf the web a little then and then and don't really put themselves in depth about such matters.
    You know, the casual user.


    I don't buy it. If 1% likes a tool, does that mean it must be made into the browser?
    And with that, add to the bloat that some (at least one in this thread) has complained about?
    I surf very well every day without that, so it seems to me it isn't required and could well be an extension for those who want it.

    The power of the browser is extensions - to add functionality YOU want. I suggest you try it.
    Do you even know what the wand is? Or do you just like talking out your rear?

    But each have their own pros and cons.
    (McAfee SiteAdvisor is not written for Opera only for FF & IE).
    Thankfully I've never had a page that I needed that didn't work in Opera. Thankfully even more I don't use McAfee

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thantos View Post
    Do you even know what the wand is? Or do you just like talking out your rear?
    That's the thing - I DON'T know what it is so I've never used and never needed it.
    So as I said, extension functionality.
    (Although, if it's any consolidation, I do like the idea that the FF team incorporates popular extensions into the core.)

    Thankfully I've never had a page that I needed that didn't work in Opera. Thankfully even more I don't use McAfee
    So you like Opera.
    I don't think Opera is bad (I've used it). What I find lacking, however, is extensions.
    Now, would you give FF a shot before dissing it, or have you done it already?

    I could just as well diss Opera because it lacks functionality I want. Would that be fair to you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    That's the thing - I DON'T know what it is so I've never used and never needed it.
    So as I said, extension functionality.
    (Although, if it's any consolidation, I do like the idea that the FF team incorporates popular extensions into the core.)
    You mind want to look at what it is then. It is far superior to FF's method.

    So you like Opera.
    I don't think Opera is bad (I've used it). What I find lacking, however, is extensions.
    Now, would you give FF a shot before dissing it, or have you done it already?

    I could just as well diss Opera because it lacks functionality I want. Would that be fair to you?
    I use on a regular basis: IE6, IE7, FF, Opera, Safari, SeaMonkey, and mobile browser. I do web development, I use browsers.

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    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
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    Do you even know what the wand is?
    hmm... how does the Wand critically differ from Firefox's password manager? It seems like the main enhancement is the visual effect and ways of using the feature (i.e., Firefox provides less options).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thantos View Post
    You mind want to look at what it is then. It is far superior to FF's method.
    I see a description of the wand at: http://www.opera.com/products/desktop/wand/
    And I fail to see how it's superior to FF's method.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  6. #81
    and the hat of copycat stevesmithx's Avatar
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    I haven't give this firefox add-on a try.
    But it seems to have similar functionality to a wand in opera.

    http://autofillforms.mozdev.org/
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  7. #82
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    The one thing that Firefox lacks is a formfiller, though.
    Fortunately, this extension can also fill that gap.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

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    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
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    Right, I see now: "autofill form", so the key is less of the password manager (or saver, that might be more accurate), and more of the quick filling of a form that was already filled.

    The one thing that Firefox lacks is a formfiller, though.
    There is some support, but it appears limited. Either way, I find it slightly irritating, thus I disable it.
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  9. #84
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    I don't find the Wand that useful merely because I have a licensed version of AI RoboForm. Which invariably means FF or IE form managers aren't real contenders either. I do find however many things I like in Opera when compared to FF.

    Much faster to load (although, I feel, slower to render), less memory demanding, more standards compliant, more pleasant and simplified user interface, a miriad of little tools you can hardly notice if you don't read about them that make the browser simply look cool... like the ability to drag images, the speed dial, and et cetera. I strongly dislike the fact it doesn't scale fonts, but instead only offers a zoom feature. I had never a javascript web page crash Opera. Conversely, I crashed FF and IE on occasions.
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    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by laserlight View Post
    There is some support, but it appears limited. Either way, I find it slightly irritating, thus I disable it.
    Yes, it supports saving information in forms. I don't remember what it's called, but it's a pretty common feature.
    But no fill in form fields with existing data with one button click feature, however.
    In FF2, I used Google Toolbar which provided such functionality, but it doesn't work with FF3...
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by laserlight View Post
    hmm... how does the Wand critically differ from Firefox's password manager? It seems like the main enhancement is the visual effect and ways of using the feature (i.e., Firefox provides less options).
    For one it allows you to easily choose between different sets of details. The second (and more important IMO) it doesn't automatically fill in the details to the form without user action. I no longer have access to them but I recall reports about people getting their username/passwords stolen from IE/FF by being pointed to a page, having the login form being filled out automatically by the browser, and then auto submitted. I seem to recall FF did something to keep that from happening though.

    Much faster to load (although, I feel, slower to render)
    From my experience it seems as though Opera waits longer to get more of the page before showing the rendering. That can be good or bad. The good part is that the page doesn't keep getting laid-out as more stuff is loaded. The bad is that you sometimes have to wait longer to get text. Design tradeoff I suppose.

    I strongly dislike the fact it doesn't scale fonts, but instead only offers a zoom feature.
    While i prefer zoom I wouldn't mind a font scaling either. I prefer zoom over only font scaling though :P

    I had never a javascript web page crash Opera. Conversely, I crashed FF and IE on occasions.
    Unfortuantly until 9.5 Opera was a pain to do advance JS with. Though basica JS always seemed to work.

    Ohh another feature I've come to need often: The trash bin for closed tabs. Can't tell you how many times I accidently close a tab If only it'd store the complete state of the page but that might make it use too much room (either memory or disk)

  12. #87
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    Oh and yes I'll be downloading FF3 within the next few weeks. I might not like it but it is important that I make sure my pages are usable with it.

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    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thantos View Post
    For one it allows you to easily choose between different sets of details. The second (and more important IMO) it doesn't automatically fill in the details to the form without user action. I no longer have access to them but I recall reports about people getting their username/passwords stolen from IE/FF by being pointed to a page, having the login form being filled out automatically by the browser, and then auto submitted. I seem to recall FF did something to keep that from happening though.
    Again, the user would just have to press the shortcut or select the wand and it would fill out the password and username. No security there, either.
    That's why you should use different profiles or user accounts for different users or not save at all.

    Ohh another feature I've come to need often: The trash bin for closed tabs. Can't tell you how many times I accidently close a tab If only it'd store the complete state of the page but that might make it use too much room (either memory or disk)
    Firefox already has this afaik.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  14. #89
    & the hat of GPL slaying Thantos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Again, the user would just have to press the shortcut or select the wand and it would fill out the password and username. No security there, either.
    Um user action vs no user action. Big difference.

  15. #90
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Same security issue, however, and more to do for me to fill out everything.
    There's no preventing people from stealing the user/pass.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

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