Someone saves us from music

This is a discussion on Someone saves us from music within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Honestly shawnt I don't know what you have been reading. But whatever that may be, it constitutes a prime target ...

  1. #76
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Honestly shawnt I don't know what you have been reading. But whatever that may be, it constitutes a prime target for toilet roll replacement.

    Trying to address your arguments directly is a little hard because the claims are so outrageous, I don't even know exactly where to start. On the other hand I'm not really sure I would want to. It would give them the kind of importance they certainly shouldn't deserve. You look like a smart person. So I'm even more appalled. I wonder if you are on drugs. That would explain it.

    As far as classical music is concerned, for the most part it was made for the people. Classical music was the music of the masses at its time. Many compositions, while brilliant on their own right, are also simple compositions without any complex mechanisms embed. You certainly can find complexity to feed that egotistic approach you have towards music. But for the most part you will be left with only a few composers and only a few of their compositions.

    Still today, some of the most famous works of classical music being played for the "intellectually oriented" paying a small fortune for the privilege of listening to an orchestra were nothing more than popular tunes in the 17th and 18th century hummed by everyone, from street prostitutes to shoe makers. You really need to put things in perspective.

    ...

    Meanwhile, the whole concept of intellectualism is so downright offensive that you need to at the very least install yourself a safety net; an effort you seem to have not made.

    While I can generally agree there seems to be a cultural and educational level bias towards music preferences, that by no means constitutes an example of "intellectualism". In fact the whole concept is wrong starting with the word. If before I understood your meaning, now it has become so prevalent on your posts that I feel I should correct you: What you mean is intellectual capacity, noesis or cognition. Intellectualism is instead a doctrine, also known as rationalism.

    Regardless there's not evidence nor any real support for such an outrageous theory that musical taste is directly related to a person cognitive abilities. Being smarter or more knowledgeable has in no way, from all I ever learned or read, anything to do with musical preferences. This can be attested from many real life examples from a highly conservative Einstein who enjoyed Bach and Mozart to a broad Carl Sagan who listened to Doors with a passion.

    The only claim you could safely make was that culture and educational levels have an influence. But this is pretty much known and expected since they are in fact the major influence in the conception and breeding of musical styles. To actually claim what you claim is really a bold move though. One you shouldn't probably take because you cannot possibly expect to support it in any way. Such type of claims (the ones which can't be supported by evidence or observation) have a name. They are called BS. I suggest you reevaluate. It makes you look kinda silly...

    ...

    Finally, on musical complexity. Not addressing again the fact that most classical music is in fact characterized by simple compositions... I nevertheless need to point out that you obviously have never heard a traditional story being told in song by an American Indian or the traditional Kimbudu songs of Angola. You certainly are missing out on the vast majority of Tango compositions and you definitely need to take a tour through Australia and hear the Didjeridu.

    What you are also forgetting is that people with "low intellectual capabilities" capable of not only admiring but also producing pop culture trash music base a good chunk of their work on classical music and are across the board confessed classical music fans.

    Meanwhile, a child is more sensitive to music that you seem to believe. In fact any pediatrician will tell you that calm and soothing music is a great thing to have at your home before and after birth and during childhood. Clearly contrasting with the cartoonish tunes of current children's songs. They can surely appreciate August Wilhelmj adaptation, Air on the G String as much as any adult. In fact, they can be far more sensitive to it than most adults.

    Intelligence has nothing to do with it. You are are not only walking dangerous grounds there, you are actually out of this world.
    Last edited by Mario F.; 06-25-2008 at 05:14 PM.
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    This may sound like a repeat, but I'll say it again nonetheless for the sake of closure.

    I have mentioned twice already that I was well aware that these ideas are controversial. However, I feel I have justified my position more than sufficiently. Its clear that most of you don't agree with it, thats fine. I'd just like to point out (simply for setting the record straight) that I am neither claiming to be an expert in music, nor a genius. I simply stated my opinion and provided ample reasons as to why I hold this position. Unfortunately, it is being misinterpreted as arrogance and ego. I am not going to apologize if this is has been offensive to anyone. This is simply my opinion, stated in a civil manner; not an attack or invective.

    All the best to everyone.

  3. #78
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    I skipped a lot, but-

    I disagree. Intellectual capacity is a precursor to better taste. Here's why. Better taste = appreciation of higher 'quality' music (unless you believe quality is wholly subjective). Appreciation of higher quality music requires at least a subconscious comprehension of musical elements and characteristics. At the risk of gross oversimplification, many animals may react positively to natural sounds (such as rainfall, bird songs etc), but will interpret Norweigen Wood as noise.
    I love both classical music and electronic/trance (eg.) -- probably as far apart as you can get. Yet I have (conditional) offers to study math and physics from both Cambridge and Edinburgh. There are many, many people smarter than I, but I certainly wouldn't call myself dumb.
    Last edited by SirNot; 07-01-2008 at 04:46 PM. Reason: sp

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirNot View Post
    I skipped a lot, but-


    I love both classical music and electronic/trance (eg.) -- probably as far apart as you can get. Yet I have (conditional) offers to study math and physics from both Cambridge and Edinburgh. There are many, many people smarter than I, but I certainly wouldn't call myself dumb.
    Its not about taste. Its about ability. Please read preceding posts if you care for an elaboration.

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