View Poll Results: Should prostitution be legalized in the US?

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  • Yes

    9 37.50%
  • No

    15 62.50%

Should it be legalized - Part Deux

This is a discussion on Should it be legalized - Part Deux within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; As far as I see, the problem is that when someone is very poor and needs money, she becomes a ...

  1. #76
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    As far as I see, the problem is that when someone is very poor and needs money, she becomes a prostitute not because she wants to be one, but because she needs money. And probably will regret it later. This is what Elysia meant by "forced to" - the poverty forces people to do this. And this is one con that is more important than all pros IMO.
    Last edited by maxorator; 06-07-2008 at 03:09 AM.
    "The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxorator View Post
    And this is one con that overwhelms all pros IMO.
    True, but legalizing it or not will make no difference in this case.
    By the pro-side, for legalizing it, is that she doesn't have to sneak behind the backs of the law and that she would be entitled to care and treatment if for whatever reason should she need it afterwards.
    That is, if it is a she.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  3. #78
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    True, but legalizing it or not will make no difference in this case.
    By the pro-side, for legalizing it, is that she doesn't have to sneak behind the backs of the law and that she would be entitled to care and treatment if for whatever reason should she need it afterwards.
    That is, if it is a she.
    It does make a difference. When it's illegal, it's difficult and against the law to become a prostitute. These two things stop many people from doing something they would regret the rest of their lives.
    "The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

  4. #79
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    Oh yes, that. Of course. I've been arguing that all the time in the different thread
    As always, making something illegal makes it more difficult to do it, and therefore the amount of the doing becomes lesser.
    But it doesn't solve the problems related to the doing. Nor does making it legal, I believe. But it does give freedom and rights.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  5. #80
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Oh yes, that. Of course. I've been arguing that all the time in the different thread
    As always, making something illegal makes it more difficult to do it, and therefore the amount of the doing becomes lesser.
    But it doesn't solve the problems related to the doing. Nor does making it legal, I believe. But it does give freedom and rights.
    Who cares about the problems related to it if they can't be solved anyway? I think the only thing that matters is the amount of people who ruin their lives. Freedom is not always a good thing. Have you read 'The Lord of the Flies'?
    "The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

  6. #81
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    Then I would like to counter with: is it not better, then, to design laws to protection and care for these situations?
    Keep it legal or illegal has no effect on it, so if we want to do something about it - then we'd have to devise new laws and keep them protected.

    I vote yes simply because I believe it's a good right.
    As it stands, I don't want to get involved into the whole cons vs pros debate, because I really think legalizing it will do nothing more than give freedom and possibly increase problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxorator View Post
    Have you read 'The Lord of the Flies'?
    Nope.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  7. #82
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Then I would like to counter with: is it not better, then, to design laws to protection and care for these situations?
    Keep it legal or illegal has no effect on it, so if we want to do something about it - then we'd have to devise new laws and keep them protected.
    I already said that it does have an effect on it. It affects the amount of people who do it for money and that's all that matters.
    "The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

  8. #83
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    I have acknowledged that already. Keeping it illegal makes the doing less.
    What I insisted on was that it won't change the nature of the prostitution. It doesn't solve the abuse, and all the evil whatnot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    I have acknowledged that already. Keeping it illegal makes the doing less.
    What I insisted on was that it won't change the nature of the prostitution. It doesn't solve the abuse, and all the evil whatnot.
    Agreed.
    "The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    I have acknowledged that already. Keeping it illegal makes the doing less.
    What I insisted on was that it won't change the nature of the prostitution. It doesn't solve the abuse, and all the evil whatnot.
    Does this argument apply to rape? A law wouldn't change the nature of rape but it does stop the abuse. A law does stop the abuse when someone is prosecuted. A law may or may not effectively prevent an activity like rape, or substance abuse, but you have to approach prevention using more civil means typically with regards to preventing an activity. Rehabilitation is one way. You've typically confounded the issues you debate in this way.
    Last edited by whiteflags; 06-07-2008 at 04:58 AM.

  11. #86
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    Laws define rules by which we need to abide. Laws stop people from doing bad things, but they are not magical. Rape still happens even though it's illegal (and it's darn sad).
    In the case of prostitution, will the abuse and slavery stop if it's legalized? Maybe it will lessen, but not disappear.

    Laws are not bad. I just don't feel that legalizing prostitution will solve the problems around it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  12. #87
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    >> Rape still happens even though it's illegal (and it's darn sad).

    Precisely why it is illegal. The abuse is not tolerated, and therefore outlaws are justly persecuted in our society.

    >> In the case of prostitution, will the abuse and slavery stop if it's legalized?
    >> I just don't feel that legalizing prostitution will solve the problems around it.

    You phrased my argument as a question and then stated my position. Would you like to try again or do you support me now?
    Last edited by whiteflags; 06-07-2008 at 05:27 AM.

  13. #88
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    If every job got banned just because someone has a bad day, and some other "do-gooder" agreed with them, pretty soon, nothing would get done.

    The "abuse" argument doesn't wash either. The abuse only happens due to the illegality of the act, and the abuser is taking a calculated chance that the abused won't report it to the authorities.

    Plenty of other jobs suck (like say unblocking sewers), but if you tried to abuse the person doing the work, you'd be hauled up on charges in a hot second. Because the job is perfectly legal and everybody knows it.

    Which is better?
    The government "pimp" taking 40% through taxation, but in return you get pension, medical, a safe place to work with reasonable hours, and at least some say in the kinds of acceptable clientele. You'd also have the right to resign, and find another employer or a different line of work.

    Or the street thug "pimp" who takes 90%, keeps you in debt, beats you up on a whim and forces you to go with whoever has the $$$. Trying to leave would be a huge gamble. When you've out-lived your usefulness to the pimp, you're just dumped with nothing for a newer model.

    Expecting the oldest profession to disappear overnight by the wave of some magical legal wand, is just as fanciful as say expecting the pyramids at Giza to crumble into dust at a moments notice.
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  14. #89
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    Well...
    1) Prostitution in itself - to sell your body for money on purpose for a reason that does not include being coerced to by slaving or abuse or fear. If it is something someone would see as a valid job for money, that it is perfectly alright - then it should be legal.
    2) Abuse, slavery, coercing, other effects that are often tied to prostitution - should be illegal.
    3) Prostitution by coercing, abuse or slavery - that is, someone who is forced to prostitute - should be illegal (to cut down on this inappropriate act).
    4) Rape should be illegal.

    Hmm. I think that's it, unless I'm missing something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  15. #90
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    >> Abuse, slavery, coercing, other effects that are often tied to prostitution - should be illegal.

    And how will you prosecute these offenses? I've illustrated the difficulties in doing so if prostitution is legalized.

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