View Poll Results: Should Marijuana be legalized in the U.S.?

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  • Yes

    23 67.65%
  • No

    11 32.35%

Should it be legalized?

This is a discussion on Should it be legalized? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; I know how people are. I know how the world works. ROFL!...

  1. #121
    Dr Dipshi++ mike_g's Avatar
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    I know how people are. I know how the world works.
    ROFL!

  2. #122
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Well, to an extent anyway. I'm not a psychologist or politician.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  3. #123
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Yet you seem to have no good arguments why it should be allowed.
    And I already stated that it could be allowed in allowed environments such as hospitals, but not to public.
    Pick any one of the 200 diseases it treats, they are all good reasons IMO. Keeping it in hospitals will not work, there is too much stigma attached to it. Restricting it to the control of the medical industry will not alleviate the black market.

    Who says they won't just sell them legally? And who says they won't cheat with taxes? You cannot claim they will lose their income. As hackers adapt, so will these criminals. They aren't just small fishes.
    Adam Smith says they won't. The expense of smuggling is a major component in the cost of illegal drugs. The risk reward ratio adapts to keep the prices high. Remove the risk (by legalizing it) and the market will adjust to the point that it is no longer profitable for street criminals to handle.

    They will flow elsewhere, such as more hospital accidents, more people whose mind will become unstable.
    You have no research to back up this assertion, it is merely your opinion stated as if it were fact.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  4. #124
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    It's no use using stating logic. You will accept nothing else than evidence flashed before your eyes...
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  5. #125
    Captain Crash brewbuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    I know how people are. I know how the world works.
    I think it's pretty clear from your comments over the last few days that you don't.

  6. #126
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    So you claim. My real world sources claim otherwise.
    Heck, my logical thinking makes it easy to claim a good grade in classes, school and whatnot.
    But arguing is useless...
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  7. #127
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    >> People cheat and avoid taxes. The black market won't disappear just because it becomes legal.

    In case you aren't aware, closing tax loopholes can be difficult anyway.

    Your argument is that drug lords probably don't pay taxes or find a way to itemize their under-the-table income. This simply doesn't support the argument against because it perpetuates this behavior. The tobacco industry passes the taxes down to the consumer in this country (as much as 200% the production value mind you) which is somewhat tyrannical in my opinion but at least without the threat of imprisonment their profits and losses are obvious.

    Call to Perfection [a logical fallacy that] is committed when one argues to postpone some action or policy until some unlikely event or impossible change is achieved.
    By your own admission neither solution will be perfect. Are you more scared that the criminals who ran the black market would simply become empowered because they suddenly run a legal business? Well guess what. Medical marijuana still empowers them as it is. Just because doctors could dish it out doesn't give the pharmacist the legal right to grow his prescriptions.

    >> All in all, you're pretty much saying that the government will have to pay MORE if it becomes
    >> legal. So can the tax money offset that? That is the question.

    We're already spending money anyway, that's simply your assumption. The goverment dumps a lot of tax money paying the individuals who need to find the drug dens and arrest drug dealers in your pristine world. Don't forget about running the prisons themselves which only becomes more expensive when you need to afford them rehab, food, living space and work. It will need to continue to do so.

    I see my position as a more focused effort to protect those who aren't old enough to make their own decisions regarding drug use because at least some of that money is going to be focused on research, education and propaganda. That at least works to a drug free generation without stubbornly trying to avoid encountering a problem or eradicating a whole market. Call it speculation but I think you need to get real.

  8. #128
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citizen View Post
    >> People cheat and avoid taxes. The black market won't disappear just because it becomes legal.

    In case you aren't aware, closing tax loopholes can be difficult anyway.

    Your argument is that drug lords probably don't pay taxes or find a way to itemize their under-the-table income. This simply doesn't support the argument against because it perpetuates this behavior. The tobacco industry passes the taxes down to the consumer in this country (as much as 200% the production value mind you) which is somewhat tyrannical in my opinion but at least without the threat of imprisonment their profits and losses are obvious.
    This doesn't explain why there is so much tax cheating (at least here), and from what I understand, a lot of them get away with it.
    Now that would be disastrous, and indeed, another thing for the government to fight.

    By your own admission neither solution will be perfect. Are you more scared that the criminals who ran the black market would simply become empowered because they suddenly run a legal business? Well guess what. Medical marijuana still empowers them as it is. Just because doctors could dish it out doesn't give the pharmacist the legal right to grow his prescriptions.
    I'm worried it will cost the government will pay MORE and that MORE people get sick or get negative effects and that it might be rooted in the society as drinking and smoking is.
    Let's face it - it's not an easy task to keep track of 100 million people or more.

    We're already spending money anyway, that's simply your assumption. The goverment dumps a lot of tax money paying the individuals who need to find the drug dens and arrest drug dealers in your pristine world. Don't forget about running the prisons themselves which only becomes more expensive when you need to afford them rehab, food, living space and work. It will need to continue to do so.
    I'm more worried that keeping it illegal will cost the government, say, $100 million, while making it legal will cost them $10 000 million ($10 milliard).
    Clearly, that's a big disadvantage.

    I see my position as a more focused effort to protect those who aren't old enough to make their own decisions regarding drug use because at least some of that money is going to be focused on research, education and propaganda. That at least works to a drug free generation without stubbornly trying to avoid encountering a problem or eradicating a whole market. Call it speculation but I think you need to get real.
    I would call that speculation since keeping tabs on > 100 million people is no easy task. Most likely, MORE (young) people would get their hands on it when they aren't supposed to because logic says the bigger the easier it is to get their hands on it, the more will do it.
    So I see it as it's have the effect of the other way around than what you think.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  9. #129
    & the hat of GPL slaying Thantos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    It's no use using stating logic. You will accept nothing else than evidence flashed before your eyes...
    Oh no, we want evidence! OMG what a travesty. Logic can be flawed or biased. Heck not that long ago it was perfectly logical that everyone that wasn't a white male was stupid.

    Considering that this is a programming board it isn't unreasonable to assume that a good portion of the people here have some sort of heavy science background. In science it isn't enough for something to be logical or seem right. You need to be able to prove it with evidence that someone else can verify.

  10. #130
    & the hat of GPL slaying Thantos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    I'm more worried that keeping it illegal will cost the government, say, $100 million, while making it legal will cost them $10 000 million ($10 milliard).
    Clearly, that's a big disadvantage.
    I have a hard time believing that legalizing pot would cost the government 100 times more then keeping it illegal. If nothing else we will save the money spent on incarcerating pot users.

  11. #131
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thantos View Post
    Oh no, we want evidence! OMG what a travesty. Logic can be flawed or biased. Heck not that long ago it was perfectly logical that everyone that wasn't a white male was stupid.

    Considering that this is a programming board it isn't unreasonable to assume that a good portion of the people here have some sort of heavy science background. In science it isn't enough for something to be logical or seem right. You need to be able to prove it with evidence that someone else can verify.
    That's fine, I can understand. Unfortunately, I do not have evidence to this and I'm not really an evidence seeker myself so my claims and theories and logic will unfortunately have to be unproved for the time being.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thantos View Post
    I have a hard time believing that legalizing pot would cost the government 100 times more then keeping it illegal. If nothing else we will save the money spent on incarcerating pot users.
    It might happen and it might not. The point is: we don't know. But I'm worried that it might happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  12. #132
    & the hat of GPL slaying Thantos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    That's fine, I can understand. Unfortunately, I do not have evidence to this and I'm not really an evidence seeker myself so my claims and theories and logic will unfortunately have to be unproved for the time being.
    So then you have a simple choice: Take the time to educate yourself and get evidence to support your position or see yourself to the door and leave this conversation.

  13. #133
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    >> I'm worried it will cost the government will pay MORE and that MORE people get sick or get
    >> negative effects and that it might be rooted in the society as drinking and smoking is.

    >> Most likely, MORE (young) people would get their hands on it when they aren't supposed to
    >> because logic says the bigger the easier it is to get their hands on it

    These problems exists regardless if drugs are legal or not, so they can't support your position. It's easy to turn around this argument and complain that as people live longer and longer their assisted living care is more expensive. Nursing staffs in elderly homes have been strained for years, and we have yet to deal with the baby boom population which is almost at retirement age. In your head, smokers are the bane of hospital care, which is unfounded.

    The prevalence of teen drinking and smoking is not solved by prohibition either, as you are no doubt aware. That is solved by social change, which I belief is best brought about by education, and maybe in the case of drugs a positive upbringing and other environmental factors, like attacking poverty. Guess what America isn't doing, and what it is instead focusing on.
    Last edited by whiteflags; 06-04-2008 at 01:38 PM.

  14. #134
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thantos View Post
    So then you have a simple choice: Take the time to educate yourself and get evidence to support your position or see yourself to the door and leave this conversation.
    If someone wants confirmation, I will do my best to respond to that (of course, they will know that I have no evidence and accept will have to accept that).
    If none wants to question anything, I'll leave it alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by citizen View Post
    >> I'm worried it will cost the government will pay MORE and that MORE people get sick or get
    >> negative effects and that it might be rooted in the society as drinking and smoking is.

    >> Most likely, MORE (young) people would get their hands on it when they aren't supposed to >> because logic says the bigger the easier it is to get their hands on it

    These problems exists regardless if drugs are legal or not, so they can't support your position. It's easy to turn around this argument and complain that as people live longer and longer their assisted living care is more expensive. Nursing staffs in elderly homes have been strained for years, and we have yet to deal with the baby boom population which is almost at retirement age. In your head, smokers are the bane of hospital care, which is unfounded.

    The prevalence of teen drinking and smoking is not solved by prohibition either, as you are no doubt aware. That is solved by social change, which I belief is best brought about by education, and maybe in the case of drugs a positive upbringing and other environmental factors, like attacking poverty. Guess what America isn't doing, and what it is instead focusing on.
    The problem I see is that it was made legal some time and grew to a problem. If it was banned, it would probably be more likely to be a (lesser) problem. But you are correct in that banning it won't solve everything.
    It must be handled properly and reduced until under control.

    And from what I understand, America is focusing on fighting bloody wars instead of getting guns off the street, solve homelessness and solve social problems. Stupid, really.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  15. #135
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    If someone wants confirmation, I will do my best to respond to that (of course, they will know that I have no evidence and accept will have to accept that).
    If none wants to question anything, I'll leave it alone.
    Generally, in a debate, if your opposition doesn't have any evidence to support their claims, the only thing you have to accept is victory.


    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    And from what I understand, America is focusing on fighting bloody wars instead of getting guns off the street, solve homelessness and solve social problems. Stupid, really.
    Ad hominem.
    Sent from my iPadŽ

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