View Poll Results: Should Marijuana be legalized in the U.S.?

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  • Yes

    23 67.65%
  • No

    11 32.35%

Should it be legalized?

This is a discussion on Should it be legalized? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Legal to use. Illegal to sell....

  1. #106
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    Legal to use. Illegal to sell.
    Staying away from General.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethic View Post
    Legal to use. Illegal to sell.
    That doesn't eliminate the black market. Most people that want it won't "grow their own".

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    But then again, wouldn't you think the government would have banned alochol and smoking if they could? I do believe they would.
    As for the whole regulating... I like to say: why throw another dangerous element into the mix? Try getting people to stop drinking and smoking instead and ban those and we'll have a healthier society. I don't believe anything good can come from those two elements.
    They did ban alcohol at one point, which opened up a sect of organized crime. What I'm saying is that the government shouldn't be banning so called (recreational) drugs and starting wars on illegal substances. Two recreational drugs are deadly, and the government appointed Surgeon general has a warning on cigarettes that they can cause cancer, yet that doesn't stop people. It's a joke really.

  4. #109
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    I don't think everything will stop either way.
    Banning a substance may open black markets, but it will probably lessen the amount of the substance people use.
    So anyway, in that light of events, maybe they should do nothing. Why allow it if it won't help anything? I will probably be the same story, or worse, even if allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    So anyway, in that light of events, maybe they should do nothing. Why allow it if it won't help anything? I will probably be the same story, or worse, even if allowed.
    You think the default of society should be for all things to be disallowed, and only certain things explicitly allowed? Again, this viewpoint is downright frightening.

  6. #111
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    Not disallowed by default. Disallowed if it brings greater stability and benefits as a whole (disallowing theft brings greater stability and benefits to the whole).
    But my question is: why allow it? What good will it do? Aside from more freedom, that is. Freedom is important, but allowing it can bring many disadvantages. So my question is: is it worth it? Will it have a more negative effect on the whole that negates the advantage of more freedom?
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia
    why allow it? What good will it do?
    Elysia, why do you keep arguing this? You have been repeating the same stuff over and over again. And so far, have not been able to come up with a good reason why to ban it. As for why to allow it, the same reasons have been repeated by a lot of people here already:

    >> It causes less harm than many legal drugs.
    >> Quality controls can be enforced
    >> Criminals will lose one of their main sources of income
    >> There would be less violence
    >> It saves money on policing
    >> It saves money in court costs
    >> It means there will be less people in jail; so governments can actually keep dangerous criminals locked up.
    >> Money can be made from the government by taxing it

    As you admitted before you dont even know what you are talking about, so it seems you are in not much of a position to make judgements here:
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia
    Well, whatever they do with it. It was banned for a reason.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_g View Post
    Elysia, why do you keep arguing this? You have been repeating the same stuff over and over again. And so far, have not been able to come up with a good reason why to ban it.
    Yet you seem to have no good arguments why it should be allowed.
    And I already stated that it could be allowed in allowed environments such as hospitals, but not to public.

    >> It causes less harm than many legal drugs.
    >> Quality controls can be enforced
    This is good if kept within a limited numbers of areas such as hospitals.

    >> Criminals will lose one of their main sources of income
    Who says they won't just sell them legally? And who says they won't cheat with taxes? You cannot claim they will lose their income. As hackers adapt, so will these criminals. They aren't just small fishes.

    >> There would be less violence
    When anyone can get their hands on it? I don't believe so. There will be more, if anything.

    >> It saves money on policing
    >> It saves money in court costs
    >> It means there will be less people in jail; so governments can actually keep dangerous criminals locked up.
    >> Money can be made from the government by taxing it
    Ah, right. But where does the money go instead then?
    They will flow elsewhere, such as more hospital accidents, more people whose mind will become unstable.
    Not to mention that because the public has it, all of these will increase exponentially. So more money needs to be routed to these and other key areas, whereas they wouldn't need to be if they weren't allowed to public.
    I don't buy that argument either.

    As you admitted before you dont even know what you are talking about, so it seems you are in not much of a position to make judgements here:
    I can resonate logic.
    Allowing it will have a bigger negative impact on the society. Whether this can be offset from the benefits it brings is the big question.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  9. #114
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    I don't get why you think a thriving underground economy is stable for society. I explained to you that it simply puts a significant strain on law enforcement because the only place for these people to go is jail or rehab. I just don't see where your faith in these institutions come from, you'll have to explain it. Sure, the DEA busts drug dens now, but that responsibility doesn't go away when something is legalized and prohibited to minors. Neither does the help available to drug addicts disappear when you can buy it from the corner store.

    Elysia, if you ran a country, would your first approach to urban decay really be "let's legislate it away"? Please, if you have some more stable scheme to deal with the problems addiction causes then share it.
    Last edited by whiteflags; 06-04-2008 at 01:12 PM.

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by citizen View Post
    I don't get why you think a thriving underground economy is stable for society.
    I haven't claimed it is, but I have claimed that legalizing it won't make it better, because many of these problems would still remain. People cheat and avoid taxes. The black market won't disappear just because it becomes legal.

    I explained to you that it simply puts a significant strain on law enforcement because the only place for these people to go is jail or rehab. Sure, the DEA busts drug dens now, but that responsibility doesn't go away when something is legalized and prohibited to minors. Neither does the help available to drug addicts disappear when you can buy it from the corner store.
    All in all, you're pretty much saying that the government will have to pay MORE if it becomes legal. So can the tax money offset that? That is the question.

    Elysia, if you ran a country, would your first approach to urban decay really be "let's legislate it away"? Please, if you have some more stable scheme to deal with the problems addiction causes then share it.
    No, obviously not, but I have explained that in this case, I find the advantages of banning it better than legalizing it. This is a case-by-case basis and if it isn't banned in the first place, then an actual study may provide interesting results that may help drive the matter further.
    Each case has its own solution. Obviously, banning everything is not always the way to go, but it sometimes has benefits. Why else are there laws?
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  11. #116
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    As the others have already been addressed. I'm not going to respond to any of your comments other than this one:
    >> There would be less violence
    When anyone can get their hands on it? I don't believe so. There will be more, if anything.
    One reason for that is that by removing a black market, you remove the violence that is associated with it. Another reason is that stoned people are less violent by nature anyway; if more of the people that go out drinking drink less and smoke a bit of cannabis instead there would be less violence.

    Now, please explain the reasons why you think violence will increase.

  12. #117
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    People cheat and avoid taxes. The black market won't disappear just because it becomes legal.
    And do you think this is the case with cigarettes then?
    How I need a drink, alcoholic in nature, after the heavy lectures involving quantum mechanics.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_g View Post
    One reason for that is that by removing a black market, you remove the violence that is associated with it. Another reason is that stoned people are less violent by nature anyway; if more of the people that go out drinking drink less and smoke a bit of cannabis instead there would be less violence.
    Indeed, and what would prompt such a change? Banning it or allow it?

    Now, please explain the reasons why you think violence will increase.
    More people get hold of it than if just the black market would have it.
    People can steal/fight with each other.
    Knowing our nature, there will always be people who do bad things, and if the public gets them, it will just grow, won't it? Seeing as the public are far more than everyone in the black market.
    There are other unstable groups than just the drug dealers, as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  14. #119
    Dr Dipshi++ mike_g's Avatar
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    More people get hold of it than if just the black market would have it.
    That does not explain why violence would increase. If you think cannabis makes people violent then at least provide some reasoning for this belief.
    People can steal/fight with each other.
    Erm.... Ok o_0
    Knowing our nature, there will always be people who do bad things, and if the public gets them, it will just grow, won't it? Seeing as the public are far more than everyone in the black market.
    You still cant answer what bad things these people will be doing, and how it relates to the subject.
    There are other unstable groups than just the drug dealers, as well.
    And what unstable groups are these?

    Seriously, how long will it take to get a well defined answer out of you? I'm guessing that you will never be able to produce one because you don't know what you are talking about.

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_g View Post
    Seriously, how long will it take to get a well defined answer out of you? I'm guessing that you will never be able to produce one because you don't know what you are talking about.
    I know how people are. I know how the world works.
    I have no scientific evidence simply because I don't want to spend the time looking for them.
    I have explained logical drawbacks, and I base decisions upon this.
    If you wish not to believe them or criticize them - go ahead. I will not back down from my viewpoint, however, because noone has proved those claims wrong.
    But you don't have to believe me either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

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