View Poll Results: Should Marijuana be legalized in the U.S.?

Voters
34. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    23 67.65%
  • No

    11 32.35%

Should it be legalized?

This is a discussion on Should it be legalized? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; That's just it - by banning it, they reduce the effects of it. See it this way - maybe you ...

  1. #76
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    7,709
    That's just it - by banning it, they reduce the effects of it.

    See it this way - maybe you can drive a car at 140 km/h without problems. But that doesn't mean others can. So. They have to think of everyone on the road and thus reduce the maximum speed limit on behalf of the society to reduce death tolls.
    The need of many before the need of one. That's how a society works.
    I don't think traffic laws are a very good parallel for what we are really discussing. It's somewhat irrelevant, because high-speed cars are still made and sold so I doubt speed limits ban squat. You simply get caught by a patrol officer and ticketed, which probably adds points to your license. That's not the same as criminalizing smokers.

    And smokers are criminalized in this country because of the tax laws, but that's another topic ...

    For what you propose we do, Elysia, America has tried. The war on drugs was Nixon's idea, and frankly with hindsight it has done little more than let 1% of the U.S. population join the prison population because of onerous drug law. We're simply putting voters in jail because they smoke pot on weekends, simply placing the burden of funding substance control on the shoulders of the tax payer. It's to the point now that a majority of the police don't care about the average citizen with a few grams on him. I can testify to that. If the police don't care about a law, forget about it.

    Prison shouldn't be a revolving door for drug lords either but for America I think it's high time we step back and realise that cannabis (and perhaps some other drugs) has simply been pushed into an underground economy. It could be regulated as well as cigarettes are.

  2. #77
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    22,627
    Quote Originally Posted by citizen View Post
    I don't think traffic laws are a very good parallel for what we are really discussing. It's somewhat irrelevant, because high-speed cars are still made and sold so I doubt speed limits ban squat. You simply get caught by a patrol officer and ticketed, which probably adds points to your license. That's not the same as criminalizing smokers.
    Well, the general point is that because the speed limit may be 90 km/h, you won't drive in 140 km/h, and neither will others. Or maybe they will, but not very often and not everywhere. Esentially, it is putting more of a lock on the whole.
    It's a known thing - reduce speed limits and death tolls decrease. Because of a law that prohibits higher speeds.
    Anyway, enough of that. It may not be relevant anyway, but the theory behind it is.

    For what you propose we do, Elysia, America has tried. The war on drugs was Nixon's idea, and frankly with hindsight it has done little more than let 1% of the U.S. population join the prison population because of onerous drug law. We're simply putting voters in jail because they smoke pot on weekends, simply placing the burden of funding substance control on the shoulders of the tax payer. It's to the point now that a majority of the police don't care about the average citizen with a few grams on him. I can testify to that. If the police don't care about a law, forget about it.

    Prison shouldn't be a revolving door for drug lords either but for America I think it's high time we step back and realise that cannabis (and perhaps some other drugs) has simply been pushed into an underground economy. It could be regulated as well as cigarettes are.
    If what you are saying is true, then it's a sad thing. But I doubt they can make it more controlled if it were legal. Call me a pessimist, but I don't see it happening.
    I'd like to see society stop abusing it as much as anyone else, I just happen to believe that banning it is the way to do it.

    In the end, what decision they make, doesn't matter to me. But my opinion is that there must/is a better way to handle this without legalizing it.
    Or it could be made legal to controlled instances, but not to the public. This is also acceptable to me because it would be much easier to control.
    Last edited by Elysia; 06-03-2008 at 03:03 AM.

  3. #78
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    7,709
    You are quite the pessimist.

    >> It's a known thing - reduce speed limits and death tolls decrease. Because of a law that
    >> prohibits higher speeds.

    Don't claim special knowlege in a debate: common sense has been patently wrong when faced off with scientific explanation. More accidents could be actually caused by sleepiness at the wheel as opposed to alcohol, for instance. [1] Speeding is more of a false cause of the majority of accidents, simply accompanying them. If you really want to rely on that to pursuade people about drugs, make it more convincing.

    I consider the relationship between that argument and the topic at hand casual. Why is a speed limit sign more effective or even the same as a real ban on fast cars? The whole parallel is just wrong!

    And it's not about what they make either - it's who it's sold to and how it is produced and sold, mostly, rather than shoving people in jail and failing to do so effectively. The police here do not care. I don't know what more you need to hear.
    Last edited by whiteflags; 06-03-2008 at 03:24 AM.

  4. #79
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    22,627
    Quote Originally Posted by citizen View Post
    You are quite the pessimist.
    I've always been. Looking posistive on things will only let you down once you find out it really doesn't turn out as you hope.

    Don't claim special knowlege in a debate: common sense has been patently wrong when faced off with scientific explanation. More accidents could be actually caused by sleepiness at the wheel as opposed to alcohol, for instance. [1] Speeding is more of a false cause of the majority of accidents, simply accompanying them. If you really want to rely on that to pursuade people about drugs, make it more convincing.
    Oh sure, I wasn't implying otherwise. Speeding is just one of many problems.
    But by reducing the speed limits, death tolls have sunk. By banning alcohol when driving a car (was it ever legal?) has siginitficantly reduces death tolls, I would believe (even though there may be some people who can drive fine while drunk).
    It's just that the theory is that the more controlled the environment is, the less does everything actually occur outside the defined parameters.

    I consider the relationship between that argument and the topic at hand casual. Why is a speed limit sign more effective or even the same as a real ban on fast cars? The whole parallel is just wrong!
    Banning the fast cars would be an even better means to reduce the tolls, of course. But I don't think it's realistic. But I do agree that it would be the best thing - with a controlled law to ban the source, we would get less problems from it.
    It could be applied in the same way to drugs - ban the drugs and you cut off people from using it.
    Yes, there will also be those who sell drugs or sell these fast cards even though they're banned, but it would be less than if it were legal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  5. #80
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    7,474
    Quote Originally Posted by robwhit View Post
    Are you suggesting that the lack of ads was detrimental?
    Ahhh... you are pulling my leg. I know for a fact you can do better than that.

    I was suggesting these events caused a wash-my-hands effect on behalf of the government and no new investments followed since. I even suggested on a prior post where money could be applied.

    Current tobacco tax money is probably being used solely on the public health system with no direct relation to tobacco consumption reduction, which was a government flag over here for a few good years that suddenly ceased to exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxorator
    So if the border control finds 30 kilograms of heroin in the back of the car they can't do anything since they haven't proved that guy was distributing it?
    Do you have trouble reading or you think you are talking to a ten year old child? Stuff your presumptuousness. I've been smoking marijuana probably for more years than you are alive and I have had direct contact with drug addicts and their problems when you were still bouncing between your father stones.

    If you have anything positive to say, by all means. If instead you refuse to read and think on what others are saying, get the heck off my face.

    Gosh! I'm tired of these self-conscious know-it-alls that know nothing and yet blindingly and ignorantly vote no everytime a chance is presented itself to finally put an end to the drama of drug consumption. Bloody useless naysayers.
    Last edited by Mario F.; 06-03-2008 at 05:01 AM.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  6. #81
    Internet Superhero
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    964
    My point is that you cannot ban everything that might pose a possible risk to the entire society because a marginal part of it could use these things to do so.
    If it was up to Elysia, we'd all have our fingers amputated at birth, that way we couldn't poke each others eyes out.

    even though there may be some people who can drive fine while drunk
    Depending on what you mean when you say drunk, i seriously doubt that!
    How I need a drink, alcoholic in nature, after the heavy lectures involving quantum mechanics.

  7. #82
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    22,627
    Quote Originally Posted by Neo1 View Post
    If it was up to Elysia, we'd all have our fingers amputated at birth, that way we couldn't poke each others eyes out.
    No we wouldn't. Don't be silly.
    How many times do I have to repeat that we must weight the cons and pros?
    Oh sure, scissors and knives are dangerous. Should they be banned? NO! Because their usefulness supercedes their danger.
    In other words, the pros overweight the cons.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  8. #83
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    7,474
    I'm drawing these two our of my list of people to reply. I mean, I've been through this countless times. It's not that I make a flag of legalizing drugs. But I'm in the pro side of the line with probably as many weak as strong arguments to defend my position. What annoys me however is having an opinion with nothing to back it up. It really... arghhs me.

    One thought marijuana was injected. The other doesn't even know it is successfully used around the world to to treat coronary and other tissue related diseases. Bunch of ignorant fools who consume ideas without thinking for themselves for a minute or two, or going to the public library and get a book or two on the matter.

    If anything these are the real drug addicts, the blind little trend consuming robots that can't think for themselves and exert, everytime they can, the same level of reasoning of a seasoned heroin addict.

    [/rant]
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  9. #84
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    22,627
    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    One thought marijuana was injected. The other doesn't even know it is successfully used around the world to to treat coronary and other tissue related diseases. Bunch of ignorant fools who consume ideas without thinking for themselves for a minute or two, or going to the public library and get a book or two on the matter.
    Then one of those must be you, then.
    I have already explained my ideals and thoughts as to WHY it would decrease public health if it were allowed.
    I'm against public legalization. If it's within controlled environments such as hospitals, then I don't one way or another whichever way it goes.
    Unfortunately, the original poll didn't say.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  10. #85
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    890
    Quote Originally Posted by abachler View Post
    This was inspired by the smoking poll. Whether or not you personally use or agree with use, do you think marijuana should be legalized in the U.S.

    If you don't live in the US then I suppose this doesnt apply to you.
    Yes, it and other "illicit" narcotics should be re-legalized. Prohibition creates black markets, violence, and rampant corruption. I also do not believe that people that use alcohol, tobacco, and narcotics should have their health care subsidized by those who don't. With freedom comes responsibility.
    Last edited by medievalelks; 06-03-2008 at 06:32 AM.

  11. #86
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    3,189
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Interesting, but what's the downside?
    There must be a reason why we all don't consume the drug and get better scores on all tests, yes?
    I'm just here to present the facts when either side make's erroneous claims. I will attempt to remain as neutral as I am able while maintaining a logically coherent position. Obviously maxorator and your claim that Marijuana is all bad is erroneous. Many of the claims by both sides are myths, falsehoods, and possibly outright lies to support one position or the other. False information and emotional appeals do not serve either position and shoudl be avoided. So lets debunk a few myths here.

    Here ae the common myths, if I miss any positive or negative claims please let me know and I will do my best to present verifiable facts supporting or dismissing the claim.

    1. Marijuana makes you stupid. FALSE, the above mentioned MRJ study shows a that it has a positive effect on IQ.
    2. Marijuana makes you forgetful. UNDECIDED. The MRJ study did not study the effects on particular cognitive domains. Further research would be necessary to determine the effects of MJ either positively or negatively on each type of memory.
    3. Marijuana makes you lazy. FALSE. No significant corelation has been found between long term marijuana use and income level.
    4. Marijuana use has been linked to schizophrenia. TRUE. In people with a genetic predisposition to schizophrenia, marijuana can increase the likelyhood of developing the condition. In persons without a genetic risk, marijuana use does not increase their risk above that of the general populace.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  12. #87
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    2,318
    Quote Originally Posted by abachler View Post
    3. Marijuana makes you lazy. FALSE. No significant corelation has been found between long term marijuana use and income level.
    Recently there was an article in a local newspaper about a mother worried about his son, told what marijuana had done to her son. She described that he could do almost nothing useful and was very dizzy all the time. So I should rather believe those scientists doing tests on their rats and butterflies?
    Quote Originally Posted by abachler View Post
    4. Marijuana use has been linked to schizophrenia. TRUE. In people with a genetic predisposition to schizophrenia, marijuana can increase the likelyhood of developing the condition. In persons without a genetic risk, marijuana use does not increase their risk above that of the general populace.
    You forgot one little fact. The genetic test statistics that were in that newspaper showed that 25 people out of 100 have that gene. What a harmless drug! Only causes every 4th consumer to go mentally unstable!
    "The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

  13. #88
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by maxorator View Post
    Recently there was an article in a local newspaper about a mother worried about his son, told what marijuana had done to her son. She described that he could do almost nothing useful and was very dizzy all the time. So I should rather believe those scientists doing tests on their rats and butterflies?
    One of my previous room mates was productive when he was smoking. He got bored, smoked and coded. Seems like it depends on the person.

  14. #89
    Captain Crash brewbuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    7,243
    Quote Originally Posted by maxorator View Post
    Recently there was an article in a local newspaper about a mother worried about his son, told what marijuana had done to her son. She described that he could do almost nothing useful and was very dizzy all the time. So I should rather believe those scientists doing tests on their rats and butterflies?
    You won't accept scientific studies, but you'll accept random anecdotes published in the newspaper. I don't think we can have a meaningful discussion...

    You forgot one little fact. The genetic test statistics that were in that newspaper showed that 25 people out of 100 have that gene. What a harmless drug! Only causes every 4th consumer to go mentally unstable!
    Since you seem to love anecdotal "evidence," how about some of my own experience -- I know 28 people who smoke marijuana (yes, I counted). No psychos in that bunch.

  15. #90
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    2,318
    Quote Originally Posted by brewbuck View Post
    You won't accept scientific studies, but you'll accept random anecdotes published in the newspaper. I don't think we can have a meaningful discussion...
    Anecdotes? Since when are crying mothers anecdotes? You must have a weird sense of humour.
    Quote Originally Posted by brewbuck View Post
    Since you seem to love anecdotal "evidence," how about some of my own experience -- I know 28 people who smoke marijuana (yes, I counted). No psychos in that bunch.
    There's a genetical information databank in an Estonian university with gene samples from 20000 different people. For you everything is an anecdote? Anyway, how sure are you that noone of them has schizophrenia? You know if they're taking serious medicines frequently it reduces the effects of schizophrenia (side effects aren't very nice though).
    Last edited by maxorator; 06-03-2008 at 12:30 PM.
    "The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

Popular pages Recent additions subscribe to a feed

Similar Threads

  1. Should it be legalized - Part Deux
    By medievalelks in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 124
    Last Post: 06-11-2008, 06:17 AM

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21