View Poll Results: Should Marijuana be legalized in the U.S.?

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  • Yes

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  • No

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Should it be legalized?

This is a discussion on Should it be legalized? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by laserlight Yay! We're normal! at least statically :P...

  1. #151
    & the hat of GPL slaying Thantos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laserlight View Post
    Yay! We're normal!
    at least statically :P

  2. #152
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    Wow, reading alot of these posts got my blood boiling.
    Alot of you are basing your decision on myths.

    Let's get something straight:
    1)Marijuana is not harmful. It does not cause cancer. It does not cause birth defects (that doesn't mean its ok for a pregnant lady to smoke)

    2)Marijuana does not kill braincells. Actually, it grows them...but in a part of your brain that doesn't really need the excess cells.

    3)You will not suffer from short-term memory loss because of pot. Its only when you are high is when you will have trouble with your memory. But when you're sober, its fine.

    4)You cannot get addicted to weed. Its that simple, its not habit forming.

    5)Pot will not cause you to feel "invisible". It wont make you feel like jumping out of a 20 story building cuz you think you can fly. It doesn't make you want to rape children and it certainly doesn't make mutant baby zombies crawl out of the ceiling. Marijuana just makes you feel good and silly. And potheads are so easy to be around. They are always mellow even when they aren't high.

    6)Marijuana doesn't make you stupid. Actually, studies have shown marijuana will increase your learning capability.

    Some information.
    Like I said before, smoking marijuana does not cause cancer. It might however, if smoked (through a blunt or a pipe that hits hard) cause temporary lung irritation. No long term effects though. And if you really care, you can use pot through a vaporizer or make space cake.
    That way there is no smoking involved. But if you want to smoke but don't want the only possible, temporary lung irritation you can use a ice water bong with a carb. Its the cleanest ........ing hits ever! Also, when using water the smoke that passes through is purified and loses alot of tar. And if you don't want any tar there is a natural legal herb that you can buy that cleans out your lungs as you smoke it. You just mix it wix your pot.

    Furthermore, why should alcohol be legal and not pot? The health effects of alcohol are far worse than of weed.
    Also, effects are way...well, less violent. Seriously, my drunkeness is like "dude if you blink at me 1 more time ima kick your ass!", with pot its like "dude, you see those trees? Yeah...those are some nice trees."
    Also, driving while stoned is ........ing easy. And we all know the dangers of drunk driving..

    Also, all these anti-marijuana groups like D.A.R.E. spew out propaganda from as far back as the reefer madness era. Anti-pot groups are ignorant liars. But why? Why have people not wanted pot legalized since the 30's? The answer? White, rich, religious conservatives shoving their opinions and propaganda in our innocent manipulatives minds.

    Anybody who seriously attempts to outlaw a plant has got problems.
    Last edited by RazzTheKid; 06-06-2008 at 01:34 PM.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by RazzTheKid View Post
    3)You will not suffer from short-term memory loss because of pot. Its only when you are high is when you will have trouble with your memory. But when you're sober, its fine.
    Earlier in this thread I linked to study that indicates otherwise. Do you have any counterproof?

    4)You cannot get addicted to weed. Its that simple, its not habit forming.
    Proof? Considering how people can get addicted to seemly anything it is a pretty bold claim to say that no one can get addicted. You also need to make clear if you talking about a purely physical dependency on the drug or a dependency of the reaction to the drug.

  4. #154
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    Wikipedia on Health effects of Cannabis says that there's an addiction effect in cannabis.

    In reality, I don't believe there is any mind-altering substance that isn't addictive - if it gives you a pleasant buzz or a pleasant calm, then you may want to have that same feeling again and again - that coupled with physiochemical changes in your body as it "gets used to" the substance will make it addictive. And it makes no big difference if it's an opiate or camomill. If it "works as the lable says", then it will be addictive. Now some of these substances are MORE addictive than others, e.g. heroin reduces your bodies production of adrenalin, and in withdrawal, after some period of use, the body "overdozes" on adrenalin, similar to the feeling we all have when we're highly nervous or otherwise "high" on adrenalin - in extreme cases proper "shock". From what I read, the addiciton level on cannabis is lower than many other drugs, but it doesn't mean that it's "nonaddictive".

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  5. #155
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    This is worthed...

    Quote Originally Posted by RazzTheKid View Post
    Wow, reading alot of these posts got my blood boiling.
    Alot of you are basing your decision on myths.

    [and then these gems to which I reply below...]
    Being myself pro legalization, I'll have to just please ask you to shutup. You make me look bad. It's because of the ignorance also on those on my side of the line that this issue is still tabu.

    1) Smoking can cause lung cancer. It doesn't matter if it is marijuana, nicotine, whatever. Don't be ignorant. R-e-a-d.

    2) Marijuana grows braincells?? Are you insane? Please don't ever say that again. It is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. It beats any of the dumb things anti-legalization fundamentalists come up with.

    4) As any psychotropic, marijuana has the potential to be addictive. What happens instead is that marijuana is less addictive than alkaloids like those found in the tobacco plant and that we call nicotine. Saying that marijuana is not addictive is wrong.

    6) No study ever revealed marijuana will increase learning capacity. Get real! What a study at most can reveal is that, being a psychoactive, marijuana can influence learning behavior under some circumstances, on some people and for short period of times.

    And to finish...

    But why? Why have people not wanted pot legalized since the 30's? The answer? White, rich, religious conservatives shoving their opinions and propaganda in our innocent manipulatives minds.
    What is this? You make the question, but then don't answer. Or you call answer that dribble your spit after the question mark? Because, if the best you can come up with is people don't want pot legalized because of propaganda, then you don't have a case on any court of this world. You lose and marijuana is not legalized.

    Look... RazzTheKid, right? Please don't say anything more. It's too embarrassing.

    EDIT: Oh and about the bit I quoted from you... can yous ee now why I quoted it? Who's the Myth Man here?
    Last edited by Mario F.; 06-06-2008 at 02:10 PM.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  6. #156
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    6)Marijuana doesn't make you stupid. Actually, studies have shown marijuana will increase your learning capability.
    While I dont believe that it causes long term brain damage, I disagree that it has any benefits to learning capacity. In my experience its the complete opposite. When I was young I used to be very good at subjects like maths. When I was 12 I started struggling, but cleverly realised that if I was to drop from an A to a C in my GCSEs then it would mean that I would not have to go to any more maths classes for the next 4 years. Incidentally this was the same time I started smoking green. After school I went to college for 2 years in a row and got kicked out for low attendance each time. The whole time I was smoking pot. Its not until after I cut the habit down that I actually started to do anything useful with my life.

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    The claims I made information can be found all over the internet.

    Smoking marijuana does not cause lung cancer.
    http://www.webmd.com/lung-cancer/new...to-lung-cancer

    Smoking marijuana does not lead to addiction.
    http://www.utmedicalgroup.com/pages/...addiction.html

    As for the "learning capability increased" claim, I was thinking of LSD. I just read about that yesterday and I thought it was talking about pot. My bad.

    But anyways, all my statements (with the exception of the one about increased learning capability) are true. I don't know why you guys have to be so hateful towards me.

    And Mario, pot was made illegal because the people making that particular law based their decision on propaganda.
    Last edited by RazzTheKid; 06-06-2008 at 05:01 PM.

  8. #158
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    Jumping in here kind of late...I haven't read the whole thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by RazzTheKid View Post
    1)Marijuana is not harmful. It does not cause cancer. It does not cause birth defects (that doesn't mean its ok for a pregnant lady to smoke)
    Citation? I've found one article that shows a possible link (though it sounds like the link could also be due to the marijuana users also using tobacco or alcohol):
    http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/con...ract/8/12/1071
    This article also cites quite a few other studies that suggest smoking marijuana increases cancer risks.

    2)Marijuana does not kill braincells. Actually, it grows them...but in a part of your brain that doesn't really need the excess cells.
    Even if this is true, why should growing excess brain cells be a good thing?

    3)You will not suffer from short-term memory loss because of pot. Its only when you are high is when you will have trouble with your memory. But when you're sober, its fine.
    I haven't heard any conclusive evidence that shows marijuana use leads to memory problems, but there's no way you can make this statement with any certainty.

    4)You cannot get addicted to weed. Its that simple, its not habit forming.
    The number of articles on marijuana dependency when I was searching for information seems to suggest otherwise. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find any that don't require a subscription to a journal.

    5)Pot will not cause you to feel "invisible". It wont make you feel like jumping out of a 20 story building cuz you think you can fly. It doesn't make you want to rape children and it certainly doesn't make mutant baby zombies crawl out of the ceiling. Marijuana just makes you feel good and silly. And potheads are so easy to be around. They are always mellow even when they aren't high.
    ...ok...

    6)Marijuana doesn't make you stupid. Actually, studies have shown marijuana will increase your learning capability.
    Citation?

    Also, another research aritcle citing adverse effects:
    http://www.ukcia.org/research/Advers...OfCannabis.pdf

    But if you want to smoke but don't want the only possible, temporary lung irritation you can use a ice water bong with a carb. Its the cleanest ........ing hits ever! Also, when using water the smoke that passes through is purified and loses alot of tar. And if you don't want any tar there is a natural legal herb that you can buy that cleans out your lungs as you smoke it. You just mix it wix your pot.
    Another completely unfounded statement. From what I've read, the only devices that seem to have any positive effect on tar/cannaboid ratio are vaporizers, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of research in the area. One source I found suggested that water filters actually increase the amount of tar.

    Furthermore, why should alcohol be legal and not pot? The health effects of alcohol are far worse than of weed.
    Also, effects are way...well, less violent. Seriously, my drunkeness is like "dude if you blink at me 1 more time ima kick your ass!", with pot its like "dude, you see those trees? Yeah...those are some nice trees."
    Ignoring your statement about the health effects, I agree that alcohol has a potential to be very damaging. And in the long run, it might not be such a terrible thing if marijuana were legalized. In my opinion, it's more of a cultural issue: we've had legal alcohol for a very long time, and by and large I think people aren't inclined to overuse it. The illicitness of marijuana use (and underage drinking) may actually be a contributing factor to behavior that is especially dangerous.

    That said, the idea of legalizing marijuana still makes me nervous, because I don't think using marijuana (just like using tobacco) is a good thing. It might give the impression, like Razz seems to have, that cannabis is perfectly healthy--when it almost certainly is not. Even ignoring the physical effects, people tend to use drugs to escape their problems, and that is never a good thing.

    Also, driving while stoned is ........ing easy. And we all know the dangers of drunk driving..
    Do I even need to comment on this?
    "Think not but that I know these things; or think
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  9. #159
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    And that's precisely the danger and what I wouldn't want.

    At the risk of repeating myself, the best arguments for marijuana legalization start by making it abundantly clear that smoking marijuana is not good for one's health. Dispelling any so-called evidence that marijuana is some kind of miracle of nature that contradicts all we know about psychotropic effects on the human body and mind or that inhaling smoke doesn't have the ability to cause cancer is a long way to start the debate in an open, honest way. The other side will have no other option that elevate their own arguments to that level.

    The problem with public debates is that they are filled with ridicule from both sides of the fence as if the pros felt the only way to legalize marijuana would be to sanctify it, and the cons, in order to keep it illegal, to demonize it.

    I tire of the dribble sometimes. Being pro legality myself, I'm particularly sensitive to the arguments I hear from those on my side. And what I just heard from RazzTheKid is exactly what I despise most; ignorance, wishful thinking and plain lies. Crackhead arguments that have the exact opposite effect in that they not only don't convince anyone, but by virtue of their falseness, they reinstate the desire to keep marijuana illegal.

    EDIT:

    Oh and btw,

    Quote Originally Posted by RazzTheKid View Post
    And Mario, pot was made illegal because the people making that particular law based their decision on propaganda.
    You insist on this. Do you really think that is some kind of argument? It's illegal because of propaganda? What propaganda? Why? Who?
    When presenting you arguments at least make an effort to defend them. I don't generally like to link to myself. But I have addressed the issue of propaganda on this thread alrady. At least I made an effort to explain it. You probably didn't even read it. You just jumped on this thread thinking that your word would suddenly saves us all.
    Last edited by Mario F.; 06-06-2008 at 05:51 PM.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

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    What propaganda? Well, let's see. Heard of Reefer Madness?
    It was a propaganda film released in 1936 to scare the American youth from using pot. The film was widely accepted by Americans. The following year marijuana became illegal in the U.S.

    Think, if you were told that marijuana makes you want to murder people, rape women, and commit suicide and you were told this was a fact, would you keep it legal?

    Its silly to think marijuana wasn't made illegal because of propaganda.

    Another completely unfounded statement. From what I've read, the only devices that seem to have any positive effect on tar/cannaboid ratio are vaporizers, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of research in the area. One source I found suggested that water filters actually increase the amount of tar.
    No. The tar is carried with the THC. THC is slighty soluble in water, which means some of the tar is left in the water as the smoke passes through.

    There are no studies done on humans that link smoking pot to birth defects, but smoking in general is bad for the baby.

    Jawib, you didn't need to quote me on un-medical related statements. I was just exposing a false myth for those who don't smoke pot or know about it.

    Do I even need to comment on this?
    No, because its my opinion that driving while stoned is easy. Others might think its impossible, but I think its easy.

    Pot grows braincells.
    http://www.peak.sfu.ca/the-peak/2005...ue9/ne-mj.html
    I didn't mean excess as in too much. The bottom line is marijuana grows braincells.

    Pot is not addictive. I gave you a link to support my statement. The information on the link was written by a medical doctor, and there are several sites by professionals that confirm that weed is not addictive.
    You want addictive? Shoot heroin for a while. Maybe meth.

    I'm particularly sensitive to the arguments I hear from those on my side. And what I just heard from RazzTheKid is exactly what I despise most; ignorance, wishful thinking and plain lies.
    I'm not ignorant, there was no wishful thinking and I have been giving reliable links to support what I say. You're a straightup ............... If you want to disagree with me, don't be a dick about it.
    Last edited by RazzTheKid; 06-06-2008 at 06:51 PM.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thantos View Post
    Earlier in this thread I linked to study that indicates otherwise. Do you have any counterproof?


    Proof? Considering how people can get addicted to seemly anything it is a pretty bold claim to say that no one can get addicted. You also need to make clear if you talking about a purely physical dependency on the drug or a dependency of the reaction to the drug.
    Marijuana is not physically addictive. It is however habit forming. Marijuana can cause cancer. It has the same levels of carcinogens as tobacco, however far lower quantities (of marijuana) are consumed, thus makig the risk exponentially lower, but not zero. The lung irritation is generally only in users that either practice 'holding it', a technique that contrary to popular myth does not significantly increase cannabinoid delivery, or users that smoke marijuana with a high CBD/CBN content.

    The increased euphoria some 'holders' claim they feel is in reality mild oxygen deprevation.

    Water pipes will reduce "tar" levels significantly both because major components of "tar" are water soluble and through mechanical action. THC is not significantly water soluble and consists of generally smaller particulates, reducing the effect of mechanical filtering in water pipes. Water pipes do however reduce the level of THC to some small degree.

    As i stated before, the MRJ has found that marijuana causes a long term increase in IQ relative to the genral population. The study did not however test specific cognitive domains such as learning, memory, psychomotor coordination, or the ability to weave baskets underwater using only your toes. The FACT is that it increases your global IQ score. Whether it increases or decreases specific abilities cannot with any reliability be determined either way.
    Last edited by abachler; 06-06-2008 at 09:57 PM.
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  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by RazzTheKid View Post
    What propaganda? Well, let's see. Heard of Reefer Madness?
    It was a propaganda film released in 1936 to scare the American youth from using pot. The film was widely accepted by Americans. The following year marijuana became illegal in the U.S.
    See what I mean? Wrong!

    Yes, I have heard of Reefer Madness. Who smokes pot that hasn't?
    The movie never made it to the general public until much, much later in the 70s. It was distributed in the exploitation market only when released and it was never a popular film that drove a nation into banning marijuana like some pot lovers like to think. It's bogus. Besides the Marijuana Prohibition movement of the 30s started in the late 20s and this movie everybody so much likes to refer to (stop doing that!) was only released in 36, on the year the banning took place. You expect an entire nation to watch a movie and ban marijuana in a couple of months? Getoutahere!

    And yet again... you don't explain why the propaganda. You speak of a movie that in fact swayed no one back in the 30s. But you don't explain why or who.

    Did you at least read the link I gave you on the previous post?

    Quote Originally Posted by RazzTheKid
    Its silly to think marijuana wasn't made illegal because of propaganda.
    Why is it silly if you can't even explain why there was propaganda? If I were on the other side of the fence and heard your argument, I would be none the wiser and think instead silly is believing that propaganda has anything to do with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by RazzTheKid
    Pot is not addictive. I gave you a link to support my statement. The information on the link was written by a medical doctor, and there are several sites by professionals that confirm that weed is not addictive.
    Speaking for myself, but believing many others in here have adopted the same attitude, there is a reason why I didn't present links to support my arguments. And that is, for very link that I provided, someone else could come up with two links that disproved what I was saying. And we could then turn places and do the exat same exercise the other way around.

    So, links, except when provided for information purposes, are a waste of time. None of your links convinced me the slightest (and I'm all pro, informed, and experienced, having smoked pot for the past 20 years). So how can you expect them to convince someone actively engaged in rebuking your arguments?


    If you want to disagree with me, don't be a dick about it.
    I'll be a dick about it and you'll suck it up.

    You make no effort to defend your case in a responsible manner. You sanctify marijuana like it is milk, when in fact marijuana is bad for your health when smoked regularly and without doctor prescription. It's people like you that keep marijuana illegal. Concentrate instead of defending its legality based on general arguments around:

    a) It's bad, yes. But so is alcohol, tobacco, painkillers and anti-depressives which are all legal. Marijuana is in fact the less of all these evils.

    b) The government has no saying in in whether I should smoke or not marijuana.

    c) Because of b) above, rebuke any of the usual anti-legalization fundamentalist arguments like marijuana will make you get violent, and such.
    Last edited by Mario F.; 06-07-2008 at 06:24 AM.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

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    So, links, except when provided for information purposes, are a waste of time. None of your links convinced me the slightest (and I'm all pro, informed, and experienced, having smoked pot for the past 20 years). So how can you expect them to convince someone actively engaged in rebuking your arguments?
    Listen, sir, I gave you links with information written by medical doctors and other professionals. If you want to completely disregard that information go ahead.

    Now, I don't want to continue this discussion because I really can't take all this hatefulness. I really don't need it right now.

    The bottom line is I believe what I said. I believe it because I have reliable information to support in what I believe. And nothing is going to change all the research and tests that make me believe how I do.

  14. #164
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    >Smoking marijuana does not lead to addiction.
    It seems the general consensus (though I've seen a few articles that may suggest otherwise) is that it doesn't lead to physiological dependence. But not everyone agrees that addiction is defined by physiological dependence.

    As i stated before, the MRJ has found that marijuana causes a long term increase in IQ relative to the genral population. The study did not however test specific cognitive domains such as learning, memory, psychomotor coordination, or the ability to weave baskets underwater using only your toes. The FACT is that it increases your global IQ score.
    Are you talking about this article?
    If so, that's an exaggeration. They actually said they found no difference in change in IQ scores between non-users, former users, and regular users who smoke less than 5 joints/wk. They still found a negative trend for users who smoked 5 or more joints/wk. And anyways, the authors warn that their results (both for the positive and negative trends) should be interpreted cautiously because of the small number of subjects studied and the relatively short duration of the study.

    Water pipes will reduce "tar" levels significantly both because major components of "tar" are water soluble and through mechanical action. THC is not significantly water soluble and consists of generally smaller particulates, reducing the effect of mechanical filtering in water pipes.
    I mis-wrote. I meant that it said it increases the tar/cannabinoid ratio, even though it does decrease the amount of tar overall.
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  15. #165
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    No that isnt the article.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

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