Thread: The Complete Idiots Guide to Brain Surgery

  1. #1
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    3,195

    The Complete Idiots Guide to Brain Surgery

    At what point do we stop dumbing down the languages and accept that if an individual isnt smart enough to learn C/C++ that they migth lack the problem solving abilities needed to be a programmer in the first place? This stems from an interviewee I had today, the guy knows LabView and Java, but he coudlnt explain to me what a linked list is, or the difference between stream and block transfers. The guy actually has a higher degree than I do, was I just being too hard on him?

  2. #2
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    28,412
    Maybe he just has problems communicating the concepts in words, but can do so in code? Though I find that rather strange since any thesis that he wrote would require more than just code.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarne Stroustrup (2000-10-14)
    I get maybe two dozen requests for help with some sort of programming or design problem every day. Most have more sense than to send me hundreds of lines of code. If they do, I ask them to find the smallest example that exhibits the problem and send me that. Mostly, they then find the error themselves. "Finding the smallest program that demonstrates the error" is a powerful debugging tool.
    Look up a C++ Reference and learn How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

  3. #3
    Ethernal Noob
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    1,901
    That's pretty sad. everyone knows

    Stream Transfer = http://images.sscentral.org/feature/0001.jpg

    Block Transfer = http://home.cmit.net/rwolbeck/progra...n%20tetris.png

  4. #4
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    8,446
    Well, if you are half intimidating in real life as you are in here, I'd say he was doing it in his pants and I would forgive him for stammering (even more so if he learned his interview would spawn such a colorful title for a thread).

    A better approach perhaps is to either not interview anyone and let someone else do it , or better yet, ask him to code a simple linked list in a piece of paper. It always surprised me how many people can't code on paper.
    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  5. #5
    Code Goddess Prelude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    9,897
    >The guy actually has a higher degree than I do, was I just being too hard on him?
    You're lucky. I interviewed a college graduate just last week. I called the interview short because it was obvious the guy knew only the most rudimentary of basics about programming (he was applying for a job on a compiler dev team ). I keep wondering how a guy can graduate college with a bachelor's degree in computer science and the best example of his work is a command line Fahrenheit to Celsius converter.
    My best code is written with the delete key.

  6. #6
    Ethernal Noob
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    1,901
    *adds gui to Celcius to Fahrenheit converter*

  7. #7
    Lurking whiteflags's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    9,613
    Yeah, you think you could gimme a job?

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Scranton, Pa
    Posts
    252
    Quote Originally Posted by abachler View Post
    At what point do we stop dumbing down the languages and accept that if an individual isnt smart enough to learn C/C++ that they migth lack the problem solving abilities needed to be a programmer in the first place?
    Are you suggesting that these dumb folk should become brain surgeons instead? Everyone has different skills. An old friend of mine tracks across the country inspecting nuclear power plants, yet he can't figure out how to use the car jack in his trunk. As far as programming itself, you're going to find both good and bad. That's true in any profession.

  9. #9
    Dr Dipshi++ mike_g's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    On me hyperplane
    Posts
    1,218
    In my C module i got marked down for not commenting this program:
    Code:
    include <stdio.h>
    
    int main()
    {
        int i;
        for(i=1; i<=10; i++)
            printf("&#37;i", i);
        return 0;
    }
    Unfortunately I could not think of anything to write about when it came to describing what I had learnt from the module (10% of the mark). For the last part a friend of mine did very well because he was able to describe how he was unable to write a for loop, so had to use a switch instead. He got a better result than me. Seriously, degrees are for retards. Its more about how much crap you can bang on about than anything else.

    This is how my teacher described a linked list:
    "A list is like an array but its faster because its not sorted."
    The only reason I actually know what a list is is beacuase I bothered to find out about it for myself; its beyond degree level.

    So, dont go giving the dude a hard time; he cant help it.

    For my project there are no teachers in my college that can help me. Its not that I'm doing anything mega high brow intellectual, just that none of them really know anything about programming. When these sort of people end up marking your work they go by the documentation more than an understanding of what is going on and the reasons for it.
    Last edited by mike_g; 05-23-2008 at 05:58 PM.

  10. #10
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    8,446
    Err... ok, that's quiet an extreme situation. I would complain to the board (it's how you call it over there?) or request a transfer to another university. I agree the situation is bad with only a handful of universities in each country offering high quality teaching in this area, but... wow. There is a line somewhere, and your university crossed it at full speed.
    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  11. #11
    Hurry Slowly vart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Rishon LeZion, Israel
    Posts
    6,788
    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    There is a line somewhere, and your university crossed it at full speed.
    I see TC3.0 existing somewhere deep under the line... And seeing number of students forced to use it in their studies today (what? we are still in 1990?) - I say a lot of Universities are living somewhere deep in this s...t
    All problems in computer science can be solved by another level of indirection,
    except for the problem of too many layers of indirection.
    – David J. Wheeler

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    UK/Norway
    Posts
    485
    After one year at university, a few people in my class could still not figure out when to use int/float/char/string....

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    516
    I keep wondering how a guy can graduate college with a bachelor's degree in computer science and the best example of his work is a command line Fahrenheit to Celsius converter.
    Nice to know that such people exist all over the world and not just in my country..

    I see TC3.0 existing somewhere deep under the line... And seeing number of students forced to use it in their studies today (what? we are still in 1990?) - I say a lot of Universities are living somewhere deep in this s...t
    I still don't get the logic of using something like TC when better compilers are available. I am forced to use TC in my college for almost everything and i hate it. But things are changing and a lot of colleges are providing students with linux and gcc. I hope, in the next few years, some sense will prevail and other colleges will follow suit.
    Code:
    >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.[-]>++++++++[<++++>-] <.>+++++++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.--------.+++.------.--------.[-]>++++++++[<++++>- ]<+.[-]++++++++++.

  14. #14
    The superhaterodyne twomers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    2,273
    From the other side of the interview room. I had an interview the other week for a hardware/IC wireless design thing and in the interview the interviewers were asking me relatively straightforward questions, to which I knew all the answers, academically. But they were coming at the problems from a completely different point of view. In college we learn to analyse circuits, give all the information and leave it at that. What's the current, frequency response, bandwidth, phase lag etc. But in this interview I was asked questions about the practical implications of the results, and not as straightforward as "what happens if the current gets too high". Real in deep-understand stuff. So, I reckon, and have been thinking for a while, that a degree (I can only speak about my own area; elec eng), is something which says "I'm at least somewhat competent at this", but it's exposure to industry that really makes you a daemon in the sack.

    >> The guy actually has a higher degree than I do, was I just being too hard on him?
    How much experience do you have? But I suppose you knew what a linked list was before you started work. Not too hard, in my opinion. What was his degree in? CS? If someone doesn't know what a linked list is after graduating (and perhaps after a post graduate), there's a serious problem somewhere. With him or with his college. I'd say make a note of that college and see if you interview others from there if they are of the same standard. If so... that's not good.
    Last edited by twomers; 05-24-2008 at 04:15 AM.

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    678
    Quote Originally Posted by PING View Post
    Nice to know that such people exist all over the world and not just in my country..
    yeah, whatever that means


    I still don't get the logic of using something like TC when better compilers are available. I am forced to use TC in my college for almost everything and i hate it. But things are changing and a lot of colleges are providing students with linux and gcc. I hope, in the next few years, some sense will prevail and other colleges will follow suit.
    As far as I know in the colleges/universities where they use TC or similar DOS based compilers. This is solely due to the reason that the students are Electrical/Mechanical major, and they need to write code for micro controllers etc. Which TC+DOS make very easy. So simple to kindle with serial/parallel ports. GCC will be a mess to use in this case. And where it really matters the students doing Computer Science major, they use MSVC. I used it. 4 years back.

Popular pages Recent additions subscribe to a feed

Similar Threads

  1. Human brain and programing
    By avgprogamerjoe in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 08-27-2007, 04:48 PM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-30-2006, 12:30 PM
  3. Idiot's Guide To Bitmap Textures?
    By Krak in forum Game Programming
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-19-2003, 09:46 AM
  4. Re: Girlfriend Post
    By PsychoBrat in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 57
    Last Post: 05-13-2002, 06:11 AM