I find myself caring less and less about the language...

This is a discussion on I find myself caring less and less about the language... within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Yeah, as much as I liked my first programming teacher (who's programmed in every language since java) he slipped in ...

  1. #16
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    Yeah, as much as I liked my first programming teacher (who's programmed in every language since java) he slipped in jabs about C++ every chance he could. "in a horrible language like C++, you don't have this tatata..." He was a great guy but man c'mon.

  2. #17
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    Naturally enough, one more vote for C++, it's CBoard
    I find, that, C++ has the most natural way of doing everything. Enough said.

  3. #18
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    who's programmed in every language since java
    Is that a compliment or an insult?
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  4. #19
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    I mean every language BEFORE java.

    The guy's old. His band even says so

    http://www.geezerband.net/

    he's the drummer. Cool guy for sure.

  5. #20
    Disrupting the universe Mad_guy's Avatar
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    Personally I'm not a huge fan of C++ - I think a lot of the spaces it once used to occupy can be successfully replaced with more high level languages that are higher level, and generally make you more productive (keywords in this sentence: a lot.) I certainly think experience with it is quite desirable and in some cases it is absolutely indispensable, but for a lot of problems these days, I think that significant wins are where higher level languages are. I spent a bit of time with C++ a few years back and kind of stepped away, feeling I could fill my issues better with tools I thought were better.

    C++ has got to be the most rundown programming language ever, mostly by people who have no clue how to use it.
    I do think it's pretty run down, but there are a lot of honest criticisms of the language that are quite accurate. If you want an example: http://yosefk.com/c++fqa/

    This isn't just saying C++ has issues- it's showing it, and the article is far too precise and well written to be done by someone who "has no idea how to use it." To be blunt: I wouldn't write off all the criticisms of C++ as made by people who have no clue.

    I'm probably playing devil's advocate here (almost assured, considering what forum I'm on,) but you have to realize criticisms and questioning decisions are a natural part of life and they serve a very important purpose: if we don't challenge the status quo, question and pick apart what's here, nothing will ever improve. Even if you think C++/Haskell/Erlang/Ruby is the best language in the world and nothing can compete with it in any area, ever, unless you admit it has quirks, flaws and issues that you think can be rectified - basically unless you have your anger-points - you aren't helping anything improve for one thing because if you did have your anger-points, you'd seek solutions and to make things better. And if you don't have anger-points, you certainly aren't helping everybody else by saying (not in reference to anyone who's posted) "it's perfect," since you're only lying.
    Last edited by Mad_guy; 05-23-2008 at 03:47 PM.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_guy View Post
    I do think it's pretty run down, but there are a lot of honest criticisms of the language that are quite accurate. If you want an example: http://yosefk.com/c++fqa/
    I read a couple items and they're FUD, per usual. And again, why is this zealot wasting time running down a language he hates? Just use Java, or Ruby, or Python, or whatever? I don't like COBOL, but I've never created a website FAQ consisting of hundreds of reasons why I don't like it.

  7. #22
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_guy View Post
    I do think it's pretty run down, but there are a lot of honest criticisms of the language that are quite accurate. If you want an example: http://yosefk.com/c++fqa/
    Look, I just got as far as No Compile Time Encapsulation under the Defective C++ link and gave up. This is exactly the kind of criticism that I can't stand; be it against C++ or any other language for that matter.

    To have to read, an I quote, "There is no reason to use C++ for new projects. However, there are existing projects in C++ which might be worth working on." and then "shipping C++ interfaces to customers can be a bad idea" is all, and then some more, about what I despise in these know-it-all programming language critics.

    If you call that honest criticism, I won't even dare to ask you what you call dishonest criticism. I'm afraid it may chop my head off.

    If you want to know, with only a very few notable exceptions, any current mainstream programming language is worth its salt. And C++ certainly is one of them and one of the most notorious programming languages, whether you like it or not. It's simply a fact. Live with it.

    I agree entirely (and I have defended this very same principle before) when you say we should be the first criticizing the tools we use. But let's stick to being intellectually honest and not use trashing websites as an excuse to do our personal propaganda, whatever that may be. Because I can as easily grab you a few good links putting C# in a mound of rotting stinking poo, certainly with as many bad arguments as the one you presented.
    Last edited by Mario F.; 05-23-2008 at 04:36 PM.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_guy View Post
    I do think it's pretty run down, but there are a lot of honest criticisms of the language that are quite accurate. If you want an example: http://yosefk.com/c++fqa/
    6.14 of that page actually says that a person more knowledgable in C++ is a worse programmer. That's rather insane, IMHO.

  9. #24
    Dr Dipshi++ mike_g's Avatar
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    LINUS WILL KICK UR ASS!
    Quote Originally Posted by Linus Torvalds
    "It's made more horrible by the fact that a lot of substandard programmers use it, to the point where it's much much easier to generate total and utter crap with it. Quite frankly, even if the choice of C were to do nothing but keep the C++ programmers out, that in itself would be a huge reason to use C."

  10. #25
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    me?

  11. #26
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    lol, yeah I just wanted to stir a little, and its a funny rant.

  12. #27
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Well, for future reference (in case someone doesn't know) Linus Torvalds is not a good reference for anything excepting on how to write a kernel. Ah!
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  13. #28
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    Wait, does this mean I think Linus Torvalds is insane?

  14. #29
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    Wait, does this mean I think Linus Torvalds is insane?
    No, merely extremely opinionated with a huge ego, as exemplified by "Linux", "Linus Elevator", etc.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_guy View Post
    I do think it's pretty run down, but there are a lot of honest criticisms of the language that are quite accurate. If you want an example: http://yosefk.com/c++fqa/
    Thanks for the link Guy!
    I am already started abhorring C++

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