Halt! Who goes there?

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  1. #1
    and the hat of wrongness Salem's Avatar
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    Halt! Who goes there?

    If you dance barefoot on the broken glass of undefined behaviour, you've got to expect the occasional cut.
    If at first you don't succeed, try writing your phone number on the exam paper.
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  2. #2
    Kernel hacker
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    And what do they do if you have three partitions with three different OS's, all password protected and encrypted - tell you to get back on the plane, I suspect?

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  3. #3
    Cat without Hat CornedBee's Avatar
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    What if I don't tell them my password? Will they use a live CD to get into a system? Will they remove my hard disk so they can raw rip it?
    All the buzzt!
    CornedBee

    "There is not now, nor has there ever been, nor will there ever be, any programming language in which it is the least bit difficult to write bad code."
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  4. #4
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    No. Sorry. This can't be true. It just can't. Some late April's Fool?

    Do I, a foreign citizen visiting USA, need to teach USA officials about their own constitution?

    Read my lips... It's... ilegal! Want my HD contents? Make me a suspect, read my rights, book me and get a warrant. Otherwise get the f... of my way.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

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    Kernel hacker
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    Quote Originally Posted by CornedBee View Post
    What if I don't tell them my password? Will they use a live CD to get into a system? Will they remove my hard disk so they can raw rip it?
    Or like me, I had two different hard-disks for my one laptop, one with Windows and one with Linux (because the IT staff insisted on having Windows encrypted with some proprietary software which meant hat having a second partition on the same drive would not work right with grub or lilo).

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    Compilers can produce warnings - make the compiler programmers happy: Use them!
    Please don't PM me for help - and no, I don't do help over instant messengers.

  6. #6
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    I agree, this doesn't make sense... I'm quite sure the government doesn't monitor all internet traffic in and out of the country... so what would be the point of checking computer data when any criminal could simply leave the bad stuff behind on a network and download it as soon as they get in the country? I mean if the terrorists threw all of their plans onto a bitmap called "picture_of_kids.bmp"... is there any chance the government would catch that?
    Last edited by SlyMaelstrom; 05-07-2008 at 09:51 AM.
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    Stupid, asinine policy, but upheld by the courts.

    http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/200...-agents-c.html

    That article has a link to the court's decision as a pdf.

  8. #8
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Incredible. Up to this moment I thought the news was false. So much for that.

    Shame. Shame. A country that ever since 2001 I feel less and less interested in visiting. The Land of freedom and democracy... As much as this may sound cruel, the truth is that visiting USA today feels much like visiting North Korea. I fear it. I fear the people, I fear the government those people elected, I fear the police, I fear the fact I may just look like someone in a mugshot and find my way into Guantanamo by accident,...

    I'm know I'm not welcomed.

    My only hope? The worst administration in American History (and history will prove it) is soon leaving office. Hopefully for good.

    EDIT: And to stop, because this issue is really irritating me the more I think of it and my blood pressure is already on the red, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_...s_Constitution. Ladies and Gentleman, on my little puny European country of freedom and democracy, we also have that. The difference is that over here... we respect it.
    Last edited by Mario F.; 05-07-2008 at 11:05 AM.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  9. #9
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    Nah, don't knock it until you've tried it Mario... it's absolutely nothing like that once you get past the borders... and in fact, on a visiting visa, odds are that you won't even have problem at the borders. Believe me when I say, you can go to neighborhoods in New York City and feel more at home than any other place in Europe (with the exception of your own country)... and I've been all over Europe, including Lisbon. Most major cities in the world have a little Italy and little China... we have a little EVERYTHING. There are city blocks where you can walk into any given store, knock on any given apartment door, and the person on the other side of the counter/door will reply in Portuguese.

    The country is doing some seriously disturbing things, but don't even get the idea that the news isn't blowing it out of preportion. I have had friends and family come from outside of the country to NYC in the past few years on Visas and have had no problems... and they all want to come back.
    Last edited by SlyMaelstrom; 05-07-2008 at 11:16 AM.
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    This is just really stupid.

    What happens when someone has a virus on their computer?
    Also, they must have an insane sever to handle all the data.

    From my experience most people dont even know how to see hidden files...

  11. #11
    The superhaterodyne twomers's Avatar
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    Dum dum dum dum dum.

  12. #12
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlyMaelstrom View Post
    The country is doing some seriously disturbing things, but don't even get the idea that the news isn't blowing it out of preportion. I have had friends and family come from outside of the country to NYC in the past few years on Visas and have had no problems... and they all want to come back.
    I understand that Sly. But I feel strongly about my civil liberties and anyone tampering with them. Stories are terrifying, no matter the fact I know Americans have absolutely nothing to do with this administration.

    The fact is that we too conquered our freedom. And even though Portugal is one of the oldest countries in the world, democracy was only conquered in my lifetime. It's something we cherish and respect. And the memories of the integralist dictatorship that ruled this country from 33 to 74 are still deeply ingrained on this society and have transpired to those of my generation who were just kids when the revolt took place.

    Why am I saying this? Because over here "civil liberties", "constitution", "freedom" , "sfaety" and "democracy" aren't just buzzwords empty of meaning after having been used and abused for everything, from electing a new leader, to start wars and torture prisoners, like in the USA. We still preserve those words and look down on anyone disrespecting them and anyone allowing it to happen.

    I'm sorry I'm being rude, Sly. But you have to understand this is the 9/11 Legacy, no mater what one may think of those accusations. Not the horror of those two towers crumbling, not the suffering on those faces, not the courage of firefighters and policeman. The 9/11 legacy is instead one of the darker pages in USA history; torture in American prisons, violation of human rights, War, Lies. That's what people remember now and what they want to remember. It shouldn't have been this way, for crying out loud!

    Last year, during the 6th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, the public television over here aired 1 documentary on the actual terrorist attack, 2 documentaries on the war on Iraq (one on that shameful prison i forget the name, and another about the never ending war), plus one documentary on Afghanistan and the puppet regime that was left running the country. Do you understand Sly?

    Going back on-topic, I feel strongly when any of my rights are attacked. I honestly fear your country sly. Not the population, I agree. But I fear your government and your police. I'm sorry, my friend. But I do. And the question remains... what if they want to see my laptop? What will happen if I refuse? Who will... and pay attention to this question to understand the ridicule/seriousness of this... who will defend me against your government?
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  13. #13
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    No. Sorry. This can't be true. It just can't. Some late April's Fool?

    Do I, a foreign citizen visiting USA, need to teach USA officials about their own constitution?

    Read my lips... It's... ilegal! Want my HD contents? Make me a suspect, read my rights, book me and get a warrant. Otherwise get the f... of my way.
    International airports arent US soil, sorry, but they just have to reply ' OK, well then you cant come in teh US, go back home'.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  14. #14
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    Going back on-topic, I feel strongly when any of my rights are attacked. I honestly fear your country sly. Not the population, I agree. But I fear your government and your police. I'm sorry, my friend. But I do. And the question remains... what if they want to see my laptop? What will happen if I refuse? Who will... and pay attention to this question to understand the ridicule/seriousness of this... who will defend me against your government?
    I'm not sure much would happen to a non-citizen other than potential deportation (should you have illegal contents on your laptop or refuse to show it). I don't want to sound cold, but I don't think the US Constitution applies to you... US visas grant non-resident aliens with many rights unique to that particular visa (many of which are parallel to the Bill of Rights) and I don't believe you fall under the full rights of the Constitution until you earn a citizenship. Even a permenant residency card doesn't grant you all the rights of a citizen.

    To be honest, in your situation... I'd say it's pretty easy. Demand that the detainee show the content of their electronic device. If they refuse, then the visa is revoked and they go home. I sour deal, but not my big issue here... it's very different in the case mentioned in the Bill above. Michael Arnold was a citizen... he was protected by the Bill of Rights and the case, like so many not only in America, but any Democratic Republic (or similar form of government)... came to interpretation of the law. Unfortunately, in this case... I think it was interpreted terribly. The judges seemed to have forgotten the idea we initially allowed border protection to search luggage without reasonable suspicion and the fact that those reasons could never fall under electronic information. By the way, I should mention that almost every European country has adopted the same regulations to allow searching of luggage with no reasonable suspicion in the past seven years. Upon returning from a European country just a few months ago, I was pulled aside and had my bags rummaged through and they had zero suspicion to select me. I wouldn't be surprised if you find many countries adopting this in a short amount of time.

    I would say that this Bill is worthy of more appeals and I would love to see it abolished as soon as possible because it's just silly. I couldn't say, however, that even though I go in and out of my countries borders multiple times each year... that I'm too concerned about being searched or what they would find if they did search my electronic content. Maybe I'm just too laid back about the whole thing, though...
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  15. #15
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    We've got a competing story. According to legal beagles, America can't force travellers to divulge passphrases or cracking information to customs or any authority. So if you encrypt it first you have a legal leg to stand on.

    Translation: Giving a defendant limited immunity in terms of forcing them to turn over the passphrase can lead to a conviction. That's because the fellow technically isn't being convicted based on his passphrase; he's being convicted for what it unlocks. Isn't the law grand?
    Of course, your laptop might be confiscated, but you backed up, right?

    Let them copy over bits of noise in my opinion. This sort of institutionalized madness will be challenged eventually. It's just so impractical.

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