AVG 8.0 - Carefull...

This is a discussion on AVG 8.0 - Carefull... within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Folks, For those of you using AVG, I suggest you keep a copy of 7.5 around before doing the upgrade ...

  1. #1
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    AVG 8.0 - Carefull...

    Folks,

    For those of you using AVG, I suggest you keep a copy of 7.5 around before doing the upgrade to 8.0. I've installed it on my windows machine today. And I must say I'm completely unimpressed. The memory footprint more than duplicated, the on-demand scan is even slower than before and worst... the tray icon error state now is much more aggressive.

    This last one is actually the worst. Memory and performance issues are minor and you won't even probably notice the latter on a machine faster than mine. But the tray icon issue completely destroys the application usability. I have posted on their forums, so you may want to read that for a better understanding of what is involved before doing the update:

    Background Info: 8.0 introduces anti-spyware features and the LinkScanner (blocks dangerous websites and checks links for threats)

    Hello,

    I've seen this issue mentioned on the forums already. But would like to give a little more insight why its is such an annoyance to the point of forcing me to go back to 7.5. I also propose a few solutions.

    Problem:
    Any service deactivation on the AVG Components window forces AVG tray icon into the error state.

    Why is this a problem:
    Some of us don't want certain services. Mostly because have specific 3rd party replacements which we like/prefer more. This is true, for instance of the new Anti-Spyware service. But also because we may feel we don't need/want them. The common example here being the new LinkScanner.

    Discussion:
    Its perfectly reasonable for you, good folks at Grisoft, to sustain the argument that within the context of AVG usage, disabling these services makes the user less secure. You just don't know if we are using 3rd party replacements or if we care about safe browsing techniques and habits. As such, at the surface, turning the program into an error state makes sense. This is particularly important to computer illiterate users and even the average user who still lacks some knowledge on these matters.

    However, this introduces a problem; For any user who knows what they are doing by disabling some service (personally, I want LinkScanner, Anti-Spyware, and Schedules disabled) it is extremely annoying to be told by the software that not only we are not secured, when we know better, but also all the functionality of the tray icon is suddenly lost. The program enters into error state mode and is permanently left there.

    Believe it or not, but for the most part of us, we only want to see the error state when there's a new update to the program databases or after a predetermined period has passed without any updates to the database.

    It's important that on the part of Grisoft, these users are accounted for and you don't loose them over such a trivial aspect of AVG design. It's also important Grisoft understands more technical users don't like or want to become dependent on one tool alone to handle their security needs. It's almost their mantra to never do that (ironically enough, for security reasons). They pick the best of the bunch on those several areas they are concerned about. AVG has been installed on many of these users machines for some years now. But 8.0 is introducing a problem that may as well mean they won't again.

    Proposed Solutions:
    I cannot ignore the importance of this "feature". I have acknowledged that a few paragraphs above; in short, less technical users or users wanting to benefit only from AVG features shouldn't be ignored either. In that context, both worlds must be accounted for. I humbly propose two possible solutions for the problem.

    1. Advanced Component Settings
    By accessing Tools > Advanced Settings the user is allowed to enable or disable error state for each Disabled Components... within reason. That is, components like LinkScanner, Anti-Spyware and Update Manager have a checkbox that allows the program to ignore their state when evaluating the application general error state.

    It's perhaps important this option is only made available through the Advanced Options so the average user doesn't unintentionally make the software behave in a way they don't understand.

    2. Tray Icon Sets
    The tray icon switches between different icons indicating disabled services but retaining database update status functionality. For instance, I envision the current tray icon with a tiny yellow exclamation mark on the upper left corner indicating some services are disabled and yet allowing it to retain information on whether the database is up-to-date.

    Conclusion:
    As far as I'm concerned, and voicing those few I have talked about over this issue among my friends, AVG 7.5 (and prior versions) feature that allowed us to disable all scheduler tasks and still be remembered -- within a predetermined period of time -- that we needed to update our AVG virus database, was a favorite feature. We also liked the fact AVG didn't try to outsmart us by unnecessarily decide for us if we are working on a secure or insecure environment.

    Personally this single feature alone made me, and these fellas, switch back to 7.5 and, if left unchecked, soon enough choose another tool for our anti-virus needs when 7.5 database stops being updated. Personally I see no need to be forced to do that considering how trivial the solution can be.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  2. #2
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ!
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    Wow, this sounds like a new Outpost. The new version completely destroyed years of hard work.
    Hope they fix it, even though I don't use AVG.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  3. #3
    Supermassive black hole cboard_member's Avatar
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    I upgraded yesterday and rolled back this morning. AVG isn't "doing it" for me anymore - what is everyone else using (free / open source only please). I'm going to start looking for myself like right now, but figured I'd ask here too.
    Good class architecture is not like a Swiss Army Knife; it should be more like a well balanced throwing knife.

    - Mike McShaffry

  4. #4
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Yup. I'm curious too. Feel will have to change soon enough when they stop updating 7.5 virus database. Fire away what you suggest...
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  5. #5
    verbose cat
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    Ouch. My primary machine is a PIII-500Mhz computer that barely cuts it when I'm only running Firefox. I use AVG and this sounds like it would cripple my machine. Definitely glad I haven't updated to 8.0 yet, and sounds like I may need to find something else. I certainly don't need anything slowing my web browsing down any more than the slow processor does already.

    Geez, and I remember browsing via Netscape Navigator 2.0 on my 486-66DX machine, and most places it was smoother than most pages I visit today on my PIII-500. Too much flash and pomp and not enough content anymore. News sites that give 3 paragraphs of a story and 27 flash ads/banners are ridiculous, plus leaving landmines where if I accidentally scroll over one of the "highlighted keywords" in one of those 3 paragraphs, my computer comes to a halt until that stupid "key-word add" pops up... sorry, I'll stop ranting now.
    abachler: "A great programmer never stops optimizing a piece of code until it consists of nothing but preprocessor directives and comments "

  6. #6
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ!
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    Ah, maybe the Adblock plugin for FF can help. It blocks flash by default. You can simply click on them if you want to see them.
    I love it. No more flash ads.
    Add that to Adblock Plus and you got a great way of protecting your bandwidth from those pesky ads.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  7. #7
    Supermassive black hole cboard_member's Avatar
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    Hmm. Another reason for me to abandon Opera and join the cult of the roaming FireFox users. But I :wub: Opera. But at the same time, FireFox seems better.

    I only :wub: Opera because I'm so used to it, though. Even though I wind one of my good friends up by saying "opera > firefox" occasionally, I have a needling feeling that FireFox is the better of the two. Think I'll google for a comparison review and see if I can't convince myself to switch.
    Good class architecture is not like a Swiss Army Knife; it should be more like a well balanced throwing knife.

    - Mike McShaffry

  8. #8
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    I use avast! It's free.

    I don't like the interface very much though, the people who built this went out of the way to make it look cute and futuristic, lots of bells and whistles when you click stuff. It gets very annoying. So there might be something simpler out there. Since I (purposefully) don't use the interface that much, it sort of stays out of the way. I just let the protection services run and do a boot scan every couple of months. That's my idea of virus and malware protection, anyway.

  9. #9
    Supermassive black hole cboard_member's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citizen View Post
    I use avast! It's free.

    I don't like the interface very much though, the people who built this went out of the way to make it look cute and futuristic, lots of bells and whistles. So there might be something simpler out there. Since I (purposefully) don't use the interface that much, it sort of stays out of the way. I just let the protection services run and do a boot scan every couple of months. That's my idea of virus or malware protection, anyway.
    Mine too. I run an actual scan about once every half a year...

    I think I'll give that a try for now, I was in the middle of considering it as you posted
    Good class architecture is not like a Swiss Army Knife; it should be more like a well balanced throwing knife.

    - Mike McShaffry

  10. #10
    The Right Honourable psychopath's Avatar
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    I used to use AVG, but over the last few 6-8 months, I haven't been running any AV software, or any firewall beyond what my router offers. Installed it the other day to do a scan after plugging in my friends harddrive; no viruses.

    IMHO, as long as your smart about what you do (don't open anything sketchy, use a secure browser, etc), there's really no way to get a virus or any other malware these days.
    Memorial University of Newfoundland
    Computer Science

    Mac and OpenGL evangelist.

  11. #11
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    The first defense is always yourself, I agree. But code wants to be broken. The last Adobe Reader update was to diffuse a security problem that originated in Windows, because the method of infection was through a munged PDF. I wish I had a similar, recent example for browsers, but I see a similar problem. Once my sister was shopping for clothes, and avast! blew up because it detected something awry trying to download.

    You are caught with your pants down between patches or versions of software. You have to trust the source. I think that's why some people prefer to insulate themselves further with AV software, especially if you get something capable that has heuristics detection and so forth.

  12. #12
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Ill have to check the new 8.0 out, a lot of our customers buy AVG based on my recommendation which is based on my using 7.5 at home. If they truly made it a pile of garbage Ill have to rethink my recommendation, but i will reserve judgeent until I can make a definitive decision.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  13. #13
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    This is a lovely article at IBM Research site that will bring a tear into some of you eyes, as you remember such disparate long forgotten names like Jerusalem, Suriv, Dark Avenger, Eugene Kaspersky, Frodo, the Whale hoax, Fish Virus, the incredibly awesome VxBBS that had me fill floppies with virus just for fun, Certus, Vaccine, McAfee VirusScan, Dr Solomon's, F-Prot, Tequilla,...

    A little bit of-topic but quite a fun read as you go through the history of virus and antivirus since 86 till 96.

    Worth saving: http://www.research.ibm.com/antivirus/timeline.htm
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

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    Hmm. Another reason for me to abandon Opera and join the cult of the roaming FireFox users. But I :wub: Opera. But at the same time, FireFox seems better.

    I only :wub: Opera because I'm so used to it, though. Even though I wind one of my good friends up by saying "opera > firefox" occasionally, I have a needling feeling that FireFox is the better of the two. Think I'll google for a comparison review and see if I can't convince myself to switch.
    Don't waste more time, switch.. This comes from an ex Opera lover.
    Code:
    >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.[-]>++++++++[<++++>-] <.>+++++++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.--------.+++.------.--------.[-]>++++++++[<++++>- ]<+.[-]++++++++++.

  15. #15
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PING View Post
    Don't waste more time, switch.. This comes from an ex Opera lover.
    definition of an endless loop -
    Code:
    while(IE > (Opera + Firefox));
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

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