Broadband Speed?

This is a discussion on Broadband Speed? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by SlyMaelstrom Pigs have an average IQ of 65? I find that hard to believe. The pig tests ...

  1. #61
    Captain Crash brewbuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlyMaelstrom View Post
    Pigs have an average IQ of 65? I find that hard to believe. The pig tests are surely biased... when was the last time you took an IQ test with a question that a pig could answer?
    It's been a while since I read about this, but if I remember correctly, IQs lower than about 70 imply basically no language ability. The whole concept of IQ as a ratio between your mental age and your physical age is bogus, but yes, it's theoretically possible to define the IQ of a pig, or a dog or some other animal, through a series of problem-solving tests.

    If I remember, your typical dog (or pig, which is pretty close) has an intelligence level approximate to a 2 year old human, of course without the language ability.

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    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brewbuck View Post
    If I remember, your typical dog (or pig, which is pretty close) has an intelligence level approximate to a 2 year old human, of course without the language ability.
    See, that's where I find it hard to believe... because the popular animal IQ trivia that I know always stated that a Chimp (which is the second most intelligent animal next to human) has an IQ equivilent to a 3-4 year old. I'm pretty sure a chimp is significantly smarter than a pig.

    Secondly... the definition of mental retardation is an IQ below 70 (I believe *no* language ability is significantly closer to 15-25 IQ). This would imply that a pig is nearly as intelligent (some likely more so, if 65 is the average) as anyone that is diagnosed as mentally retarded. I had an uncle who was mentally retarded and he was significantly more intelligent than any pig I've come across.
    Last edited by SlyMaelstrom; 04-10-2008 at 12:37 PM.
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    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlyMaelstrom View Post
    Pigs have an average IQ of 65? I find that hard to believe. The pig tests are surely biased... when was the last time you took an IQ test with a question that a pig could answer?
    They usually use the Turing test, and normalize. Obviously it is possible that pigs excell at the particular cognitive domain tessted relative to a more globally comprehensive test, but since the CD tested is generalyl problem solving ability, the same CD elected for entry into MENSA, I think Ill have to go ahead and agree with the results.
    Last edited by abachler; 04-10-2008 at 12:33 PM.
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    Captain Crash brewbuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlyMaelstrom View Post
    See, that's where I find it hard to believe... because the popular animal IQ trivia that I know always stated that a Chimp (which is the second most intelligent animal next to human) has an IQ equivilent to a 3-4 year old. I'm pretty sure a chimp is significantly smarter than a pig.
    Sure -- but a 4 year old is significantly smarter than 2 year old, as well.

    Secondly... the definition of mental retardation is an IQ below 70. This would imply that a pig is nearly as intelligent (some likely more so, if 65 is the average) as anyone that is diagnosed as mentally retarded. I had an uncle who was mentally retarded and he was significantly more intelligent than any pig I've come across.
    Well like I said, the whole concept is sort of bogus anyway.

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    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abachler View Post
    They usually use the Turing test, and normalize.


    Yes, I understand there is a simplified way to judge the IQ of an animal... I was kidding about a pig taking a human IQ test.
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    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlyMaelstrom View Post
    significantly more intelligent than any pig I've come across.
    Exactly how many pigs have you come across? How many of them have you tested in a labratory environment with double blind controls? Or are you just suggesting that thousands of cognitive scientists are falsifying their results because you don't like what you percieve them as implying?
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    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brewbuck View Post
    Well like I said, the whole concept is sort of bogus anyway.
    Only the concept of correctly measuring an animal's IQ, in my opinion. As far as human IQ, I'd say it's a fairly accurate measure if conducted properly. The problem these days is all the websites that offer these dumbed-down, short, inaccurate IQ tests that they allow users to take several times over again.

    Last internet IQ test I took I got a 165... I have no problem putting doubts into the accuracy of that.
    Last edited by SlyMaelstrom; 04-10-2008 at 12:46 PM.
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    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    I agree the online tests are bogus. A correctly done test takes at least an hour, usually more. If you only take the online test once, it is accurate in that people that tend to score higher on it would also tend to score higher on IQ tests, but it certainly doesnt tell you your IQ.

    If you realyl want an accurate guage of your intelligence, take this test -

    Pigs are smarter than republicans
    Last edited by abachler; 04-10-2008 at 01:11 PM.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

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    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    This whole idea half of the population in the world is dumb... I'm smart enough to not buy it.
    People are generally intelligent and smart. Some are futile or lead a futile life and we think of that as being dumb. Some had poor education and we think of that as being dumb. Some lead simple lives and we think of that as being dumb. Some people are generally preconceived, stupid, arrogant, ignorant or any other ant... and we think of that as being dumb.

    With all my education, self-taught skills and book reading, I will never forget the look I got from my farmer uncle friends when they realized I didn't understand their turnip and pig joke.

    This whole intelligence talk bores me. I must be dumb.
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    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

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    This whole idea half of the population in the world is dumb.
    That's only true if you define "dumb" as less than average intelligence... but then because of clustering many people in the world are of average intelligence, so even then less than half the population in the world are "dumb".
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    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    Lies, damn lies, and statistics! Statistics are the happy manipulation of numbers to prove any point at all: The trouble with ranking intelligence is that if you're further up on the list, somebody's gotta go down on the list, and maybe that isn't the best illustration. More people are going to school than ever before. If people are going to school and so many people are still too dumb, then maybe that's the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by citizen View Post
    More people are going to school than ever before. If people are going to school and so many people are still too dumb, then maybe that's the problem.
    Exactly. There is one problem.. We thinking that we can measure intelligence. My uncle will surely fail his IQ test. But he's a damn good farmer and richer that I will ever hope to be. Yes, he can't do complex problem solving and will yawn at square-like patterns in the test sheet. But that didn't stop him from leading a successful, quiet life. Who's smarter?

    But really what annoys me is this argument that "most everybody is dumb. I see them everyday on the street". You gotta be dumb to say something like that.
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    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  13. #73
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    This whole idea half of the population in the world is dumb... I'm smart enough to not buy it.
    Mario, its a statistical fact that half the population has an IQ under 100. 100 is defined as the median. Its not an absolute scale, its a relative scale like the celsius cale, where the boiling point of water was 'set' at 100. Whatever the average intelligence of humans is, that score is 'set' as 100. Since it is the average, by definition half the people will have a lower score, barring some huge group of hyper-intelligent or hyper-retarded humans that are skewing the results. Since the scores more or less follow a natural distribution this isnt the case, so unless you want to argue that only 49.995&#37; of the population has an IQ lower than 100 and therefore my statement is patently false...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F.
    But really what annoys me is this argument that "most everybody is dumb.
    And since when is half == most. More fuzzy math I suppose, well, I guess we know which side of the median you lie on.
    Last edited by abachler; 04-10-2008 at 02:44 PM.
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    Captain Crash brewbuck's Avatar
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    I do not see how the statement "half are below average" even means anything, since it is tautological. The definition of "average" is, in some sense, the mid point. Saying that half of the items are less than the mid point doesn't say anything at all.

    And for normal, sufficiently large populations, the mean is sufficiently close to the median that they can be treated as identical.

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    Assuming that anyone who does not know the size of a kilobyte is stupid, is stupid. Theres bound to be plenty of genius' in the world that arent very interested in computers, and never cared to find out how big a kilobyte was. Although most people with an exceptionally hi IQ tend to be a bit on the autistic side, so probably relate to computers quite well.

    On the other hand I imagine you could get a monkey to remember how big a kilobyte is; apparently many of them have better memory storage capacity than we do. The whole IQ argument here is irrelevant.

    Also I'm a bit skeptical about how effective the measurement of IQ is when a pig rates at 65. Does that mean that the average persons mental capacity is closer to that of a pig then someone with an IQ of 140? I doubt it.

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