Linux vs Windows

This is a discussion on Linux vs Windows within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Please don't feel that I want to start a flame war or any such stupid things. By hearing some board ...

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    Linux vs Windows

    Please don't feel that I want to start a flame war or any such stupid things.

    By hearing some board members views (some on the board, and 1 in chat) I felt that although MS products are mostly good.
    But their policies, and monopolizing nature is mostly considered bad.

    But there are alternatives.
    Mac being my least favorite. And Linux being a direct replacement of Windows.

    Why don't we. At least the ones among us who are a little more than average user. Start using Linux. Even if side by side with Windows.
    And also help doing away with pitfalls that we see in Linux world. See its open. Every body, who has the will, and skill,
    can contribute.

    I wish to see all forum members using Linux. It has improved a lot. And all software has its weaknesses.
    So try to help it improving. And Lets use it.

    At least a comment from the experienced members is what I am looking for.


  2. #2
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    OK, here's the thing:
    If you can suggest how to:

    - Get rid of command lines entirely
    - To run, install and use Linux without the use of the konsole
    - Install drivers without the konsole
    - Fix drivers and 5.1 surround for Creative X-fi
    - Make wine run all Windows apps without command line
    - Make it possible to run Visual Studio on Linux

    Then I will consider it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  3. #3
    Code Goddess Prelude's Avatar
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    >Why don't we. At least the ones among us who are
    >a little more than average user. Start using Linux.
    Why don't you give everyone a good reason other than "I don't like Microsoft's business practices". Unless you're just a mindless adopter, there has to be a good reason to switch from an OS you know and are comfortable with (that does everything you need), to something completely different that may or may not meet your needs.

    >Even if side by side with Windows.
    Once again, there has to be a good reason to bother spending time with Linux.

    I can guarantee that when you say "Everyone should use Linux!", you'll get a resounding "Why?" in response.
    My best code is written with the delete key.

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    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    > WinDoes MacOwes LinSucks

    Your signature appears to disagree with the content of your thread.

    Anyway, I don't know anyone who considers themself a C or C++ programmer that hasn't worked in both Linux and Windows. It's almost expected that you can operate cross-platform when you apply for a programming job (at least for a language that can be used cross-platform).

    To be very honest, I use Windows for nearly everything except when I am developing for Linux and I see no reason at the current time to change my practices.
    Last edited by SlyMaelstrom; 04-03-2008 at 07:23 AM.
    Sent from my iPad®

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    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    OK, here's the thing:
    If you can suggest how to:

    - Get rid of command lines entirely
    - To run, install and use Linux without the use of the konsole
    - Install drivers without the konsole
    - Fix drivers and 5.1 surround for Creative X-fi
    - Make wine run all Windows apps without command line
    - Make it possible to run Visual Studio on Linux

    Then I will consider it.
    Ok... a direct counterpart, if you don't mind. I'm sure others can even come up with better

    If you can:
    - Reintroduce command line to windows as a real alternative
    - To run, install and use Windows with the GUI interface I want, on the partition I want.
    - Install drivers. Period. (you know what I mean)
    - Force driver developers to be backwards compatible
    - Make Microsoft Virtual PC go back to support Linux on its free version... as it always did before Microsoft bought it

    As for "Make it possible to run Visual Studio on Linux", you got me there. However let it be said that gcc under linux is not one step behind Visual Studio on Windows. In fact, I would consider it to be far superior due to so much IDE availability, you get to throw up, a larger community support and a huge user base.

    Anyways, make sure that happens and I maybe... well not really... go back to windows.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

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    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    you get to throw up
    That's always a good thing.
    Sent from my iPad®

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    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    It must be hard for you, poor sod
    But on a serious note, those are the quarrels I've got for Linux and why I do not consider it an alternative to Windows.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  8. #8
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    - Get rid of command lines entirely
    - To run, install and use Linux without the use of the konsole
    - Install drivers without the konsole
    - Fix drivers and 5.1 surround for Creative X-fi
    - Make wine run all Windows apps without command line
    - Make it possible to run Visual Studio on Linux
    That is more like "Convert Linux to Windows and i will use it"

    I don't see the need to use Linux just because one is better than the average user. Using windows doesn't make you a noob and using Linux doesn't make you 1337. It depends a lot on what the person wants from his system. For casual use windows is the best, but it has its drawbacks.. I personally use both Windows as well as Linux based systems. There are a few things i like bout both of them, I like linux because it is open source,stable and i can configure it to run exactly according to my specifications. Windows on the other hand is easy to install and use and all major software / hardware companies support the latest versions of windows, so getting drivers is not a headache. On the other hand, some distros of linux can be a pain to install and to get them to work with your system. I'd recommend a windows user to switch to linux only if he/she wants to learn a new OS. Apart from that i don't think it matters a lot as to whether you are using windows or linux.
    Code:
    >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.[-]>++++++++[<++++>-] <.>+++++++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.--------.+++.------.--------.[-]>++++++++[<++++>- ]<+.[-]++++++++++.

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    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Yep, agree with you there. A lot speaks of "Linux will take over Windows" but I doubt it will come true. Windows and Linux are two different flavors of the same thing. They will exist beside each other. Linux isn't my type, so I'm sticking with Windows.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  10. #10
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    My sig speaks the truth.

    For most of us:
    Windows Does the job.
    Mac seems to OWE everything.
    Linux sometimes Sucks because of its hackish origins.

    Only one more comment for now, I will add more, as I get to know more about Linux.
    Eclipse is superb. Forget MSVC. Use Eclipse on Linux.
    And please don't say that run this from Windows on Linux.
    Instead try explore on you own, you are not a newbie anymore, and you will most likely find similar stuff in Linux.

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    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manav View Post
    Only one more comment for now, I will add more, as I get to know more about Linux.
    Eclipse is superb. Forget MSVC. Use Eclipse on Linux.
    And please don't say that run this from Windows on Linux.
    Instead try explore on you own, you are not a newbie anymore, and you will most likely find similar stuff in Linux.
    Visual Studio is excellent because of its superior GUI and superior debugging facilities. Not to mention, no messing with command lines, each access to everything within the GUI, etc, etc.
    Find me something similar on Linux.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  12. #12
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Visual Studio is excellent because of its superior GUI and superior debugging facilities. Not to mention, no messing with command lines, each access to everything within the GUI, etc, etc.
    Find me something similar on Linux.
    gcc. Suprised?

    Again you are confusing personal preferences with what defines a product to be good. If that was the only reason Visual Studio was good then we might as well dump it. Visual Studio is excellent because it apparently produces lean mean code and does it fast. It's IDE is top notch (except for Intellisense) and offer a lot of features that augment productivity. It also offers functionality for team based development, which is a must these days. It's debugger is powerful and fast.

    Now... That is why Visual Studio is great in my opinion. However, I'm yet to see any developers capable of running me or you in circles sustaining gcc is crap. Do you dare?
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  13. #13
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    I don't think GCC is crap, but it is also a compiler, unlike Visual Studio which is an IDE.
    And again, other compilers don't like MFC. Getting cl to run under Code::Blocks will be a pain. And from what I hear, it doesn't support the full debugging facilities of Visual Studio either, which is a shame.

    Visual Studio also features stack overrun checks and the ability to monitor when a certain memory address changes, which are invaluable tools.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  14. #14
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    You are correct. I mixed Visual Studio with Visual C++. I did find one IDE which is superior, in my opinion to Visual Studio. That's SlickEdit. It also costs over 200 USD
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  15. #15
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Anyways, I'm with manav on this one and partially reject Prelude's "you have to have a good reason". The reason may not be so good and it may be entirely simply because one just wants to experiment new things. A trait I find common among software developers and any computer geeks.

    Learning other operating systems is a bonus, in my opinion. Not something to be disgruntled about. It broadens horizons, it allows you to learn new ways of performing the same tasks and guess what... it enriches your resume. It is almost always also a pleasure. I'll be forever in love with NeXTStep and BeOS for instance. I'll never forget my time spent with classical Mac OS... and now my eagerness to learn anything Linux related.

    Learning new programming languages is a common trait here. Some of them we do it just for the kicks, knowing it will only enrich ourselves, but will have little practical use. I don't see how learning a new OS is any different.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

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