Question about Laptop connecting to a Desktop

This is a discussion on Question about Laptop connecting to a Desktop within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by laserlight That only shows that it is unethical for you to use the company's computer irresponsibly. It ...

  1. #31
    Cogito Ergo Sum
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    463
    Quote Originally Posted by laserlight View Post
    That only shows that it is unethical for you to use the company's computer irresponsibly. It does not show that it is ethical to monitor the computer without your knowledge (e.g., the ethics of duty here could apply in both directions).


    You're missing the point: I am not arguing that it is the monitoring that is unethical, but the lack of prior warning that is unethical.
    I don't agree, if it's the workplace, you are meant to be doing work related issues. Like I said, what is ethical depends on the case. At work, it doesn't 'go both ways' you are given a job, and you are meant to do it, the only time I guess it is NOT OK is if they monitor you and the company doesn't have a policy on using the computers for personal use.

    But pretty much all companies do. If you are meant to be doing something, but doing something else, how is it someone else's fault?, if it's their systems, they should have the right to install whatever the heck they want, you being monitored unknowingly is your wrongdoing, because you were doing something that you weren't meant to be doing.
    =========================================
    Everytime you segfault, you murder some part of the world

  2. #32
    Cogito Ergo Sum
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    463
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    That's different. Sometimes there is need for surveillance. But spying on someone without really good cause is just plain wrong. There must be a line drawn somewhere.
    Yea, and who exactly draws this line? Who is to determine what is wrong and what isn't, the legal act? It's always being revised anyways, so these 'ethics' don't seem to go hand in hand, ethics should be unchanged, if it's changing all the time, then how can you reinforce what is wrong and right if it's changing.

    And also who determines what is 'good cause'

    How so? I never claimed I like companies or governments spying either. It should all stop, if you ask me.
    True, it should ALL stop, but it won't ever. Governments are always interested in what the other is doing, and hence you can never know who exactly is spying you, they have to spy on others, even though formally they deny it all. If the US decided to stop spying, rest assured...well you can imagine what will happen. Eitherways, the point is, you are implicitly quoting these 'rights' acts instituted by the governments who break the rules themselves, they set the standards for ethics, then break it, and then hand it out like confetti for others to propagate their dialectics while in a state of hypocrisy. So how can you even know what is ethical or not, you are merely saying it because the government has said so in their acts, it's been drilled into everyone's head. SPYING IS WRONG, but it really depends on when, where, why, how

    You realize that typically a front approach works better than just trying to deny everything for someone?
    ?
    Last edited by JFonseka; 03-21-2008 at 06:57 AM.
    =========================================
    Everytime you segfault, you murder some part of the world

  3. #33
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ!
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    23,007
    Quote Originally Posted by JFonseka View Post
    Yea, and who exactly draws this line? Who is to determine what is wrong and what isn't, the legal act? It's always being revised anyways, so these 'ethics' don't seem to go hand in hand, ethics should be unchanged, if it's changing all the time, then how can you reinforce what is wrong and right if it's changing.

    And also who determines what is 'good cause'
    This can be quite a discussion. A discussion that never ends. And I'm not willing to pursue it. Just let it be said that I believe spying on someone like you are is not acceptable.

    ?
    Meaning it would be better to talk to your brothers/parents about the problems and discuss solutions rather than trying to force things down their throat and spy on them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  4. #34
    Cogito Ergo Sum
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    463
    Anyways, I don't care anymore. I will inform my brother if I plan to monitor him, is that k Elysia?
    =========================================
    Everytime you segfault, you murder some part of the world

  5. #35
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ!
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    23,007
    Go ahead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  6. #36
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    22,265
    the only time I guess it is NOT OK is if they monitor you and the company doesn't have a policy on using the computers for personal use.

    But pretty much all companies do.
    In other words, pretty much all companies behave ethically in respect, also in compliance with respective laws.

    If you are meant to be doing something, but doing something else, how is it someone else's fault?
    It is not. That is entirely your fault.

    if it's their systems, they should have the right to install whatever the heck they want
    That is what I pointed out.

    you being monitored unknowingly is your wrongdoing
    That does not make sense since it implies that even if you are legitimately using company computer resources, you are in the wrong, since you are being monitored unknowingly.

    because you were doing something that you weren't meant to be doing.
    If you are in the wrong concerning the usage of a computer, you are in the wrong whether you are being monitored or not, with or without your knowledge.

    EDIT:
    I will inform my brother if I plan to monitor him
    Ah, fair enough then
    Last edited by laserlight; 03-21-2008 at 08:56 AM.
    C + C++ Compiler: MinGW port of GCC
    Version Control System: Bazaar

    Look up a C++ Reference and learn How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

  7. #37
    Cogito Ergo Sum
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    463
    Quote Originally Posted by laserlight View Post

    That does not make sense since it implies that even if you are legitimately using company computer resources, you are in the wrong, since you are being monitored unknowingly.
    Sorry, I meant, you being monitored unknowingly in a company, shouldn't be a problem when what you are meant to be doing is their WORK, which is monitored anyways by a project leader. When you get caught, even if you were monitored unknowingly, then it is your wrongdoing. There should be no question of 'privacy issues' in a workplace since you shouldn't be doing personal things there anyways, and monitoring is bound to happen, whether they inform you or not. And don't take what I said in quotes in a broad sense, just to your privacy during work, it's not really 'privacy' when it's evaluated by everyone.

    You can't blame someone for monitoring you without telling you, when you were not meant to be doing personal things in the first place.

    This goes back to what I earlier said about dependency cases.
    =========================================
    Everytime you segfault, you murder some part of the world

  8. #38
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    7,578
    Quote Originally Posted by JFonseka View Post
    You can't blame someone for monitoring you without telling you, when you were not meant to be doing personal things in the first place.
    Under most countries' labor law, this is illegal. EDIT: The monitoring is.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  9. #39
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    22,265
    Under most countries' labor law, this is illegal. EDIT: The monitoring is.
    Even with an appropriate notice to staff? If I remember correctly, I read in a local newspaper that such monitoring was permitted in Singapore, with the appropriate prior warning of the monitoring. This online article on Workplace Privacy states that, at least in the US:
    Is my employer allowed to see what is on my terminal while I am working?

    Generally, yes. Since the employer owns the computer network and the terminals, he or she is free to use them to monitor employees.Employees are given some protection from computer and other forms of electronic monitoring under certain circumstances. Union contracts, for example, may limit the employer's right to monitor. Also, public sector employees may have some minimal rights under the United States Constitution, in particular the Fourth Amendment which safeguards against unreasonable search and seizure.
    C + C++ Compiler: MinGW port of GCC
    Version Control System: Bazaar

    Look up a C++ Reference and learn How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

  10. #40
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    7,578
    Quote Originally Posted by laserlight View Post
    Even with an appropriate notice to staff? If I remember correctly, I read in a local newspaper that such monitoring was permitted in Singapore, with the appropriate prior warning of the monitoring. This online article on Workplace Privacy states that, at least in the US:
    No. Not illegal as long as the employee knows they're being monitored. However highly illegal otherwise, And that was what I was quoting to.

    Any attempt to fire a worker on those grounds will not only fail but also force the company to pay the worker a hefty fine on the grounds of invasion of privacy.

    Over here in Portugal we go a little step forward and also guarantee that any software used to monitor the worker activity - if used, and found to be the cause of a lack of productivity levels - cannot be used to claim said lack of productivity.

    This was so because some earlier in-place software caused either frequent crashes or forced older computers performance to a crawl and some companies, as incredible as it may seem, were trying to use that against the workers when they were downsizing.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  11. #41
    Internet Superhero
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    964
    Quote Originally Posted by laserlight View Post
    Even with an appropriate notice to staff? If I remember correctly, I read in a local newspaper that such monitoring was permitted in Singapore, with the appropriate prior warning of the monitoring. This online article on Workplace Privacy states that, at least in the US:
    If the "victim" knows that someone is monitoring, it is not spying. Then it is simply supervising whatever this individual is doing, and i don't believe this is illegal in any countries, as long as it does not conflict with any laws of privacy (Which won't be the case if the person being spied on is @ work)...
    How I need a drink, alcoholic in nature, after the heavy lectures involving quantum mechanics.

  12. #42
    Cogito Ergo Sum
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    463
    I am well aware of what the law says, and if I was an employer, I would let the employee know.

    I am just saying it's ridiculous to call them 'ethics' if they are constantly under revision and changing criteria and dependent of places where they are enforced. Ethics can't be changing all the time.

    So to call it ethics and then to quote the 'law' is just laughable.
    =========================================
    Everytime you segfault, you murder some part of the world

  13. #43
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    7,578
    Quote Originally Posted by JFonseka View Post
    So to call it ethics and then to quote the 'law' is just laughable.
    The spirit of the law is deeply ingrained on a society's moral and ethical values. So it's not ridiculous. Laws may change, but they do not derail from the society's values.

    Monitoring workers without their knowledge has two major problems. One is ethical, the other functional.

    The ethical problem is that it is the closest you get to repression. It's no different a mechanism than that used by many dictatorships in the past and in the present. No free society will lightly accept this.

    The functional problem is that it is designed to punish, not to avoid the problem. If instead the workers know they are being monitored, you avoid the problem. In fact you are even more effective because a worker still caught using the company resources for their own personal benefit is knowingly breaking the rules. As I see it, this gives the company more arguments.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  14. #44
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ!
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    23,007
    Disregarding ethics is like smashing yourself with a hammer. How much do you know about ethics? They exist everywhere and is a fine line between order and disorder. Some of the ethics is even made into laws. So ethics has a higher purpose than laws, really. I wouldn't call it laughable, because the law came from the ethics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  15. #45
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    44
    Instead of spying, you could save yourself the trouble and use something like Dansguardian. There must be something similar for Windows platforms.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Popular pages Recent additions subscribe to a feed

Similar Threads

  1. another do while question
    By kbpsu in forum C++ Programming
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-23-2009, 01:14 PM
  2. Question...
    By TechWins in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 07-28-2003, 10:47 PM
  3. opengl DC question
    By SAMSAM in forum Game Programming
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-26-2003, 09:22 PM
  4. should i get a laptop or a desktop?
    By Nutshell in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 10-13-2002, 04:31 PM

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21