New levels of retardedness

This is a discussion on New levels of retardedness within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; PC has better games, and most of the games for consoles are now available on the PC. The console market ...

  1. #61
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    PC has better games, and most of the games for consoles are now available on the PC. The console market just doesnt have that many people that are willing to spend 5+ hours on one RTS map.
    Last edited by abachler; 03-19-2008 at 01:30 PM.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  2. #62
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Nice try Wraithan. Didn't work though.
    For some people the world doesn't have any shade of grey.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  3. #63
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abachler View Post
    PC has better games, and most of the games for consoles are now available on the PC. The console market just doesnt have that many people that are willing to spend 5+ hours on one RTS map.
    I don't think that's a fair statement. Maniacs and game addicts exist both on PCs and consoles, regardless what type of game it is. Plus PC does not have "better games", because it's all subjective to each and everyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  4. #64
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Elysia do yourself a favor. Don't pay attention. He's obviously trolling.
    What do you expect of someone that says he buys 2 games per month and yet claims to spend $200 an year? Pathetic.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  5. #65
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    I don't think that's a fair statement. Maniacs and game addicts exist both on PCs and consoles, regardless what type of game it is. Plus PC does not have "better games", because it's all subjective to each and everyone.
    That's fair enough, lets say then that PC's have a larger variety of games.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  6. #66
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Shrug. Whatever.
    I feel I've gone along with console games just fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by abachler View Post
    That's fair enough, lets say then that PC's have a larger variety of games.
    This is changing however. Usually a game is developed and released for the PC, and then ported to a console, some developers however are starting to do it the other way around. Just look at the new Assassin's Creed for example. Oh and the next id Tech graphics engine will also be developed for consoles and then ported to the PC.
    How I need a drink, alcoholic in nature, after the heavy lectures involving quantum mechanics.

  8. #68
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Only now?

    Consoles have always been the domain of games. Memory is short for most of us, but before the emergence of personal computers, where did we play games? The PC took the market by storm. But consoles seem to have been catching their breath since PS1.

    Having more or less games is irrelevant. Historically consoles always dominated the game industry and it will take maybe 20 more years for PCs to claim that spot.

    Since consoles are recovering the lost ground and PCs losing what they have conquered, can you see what the future will hold? In my view "One console in every household" in the years to come. The irony kills me...
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  9. #69
    Cogito Ergo Sum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Another solution is sometimes to do a 1:1 copy of your DVD or just a copy and enable emulation with Deamon Tools for example. Though I haven't really needed to do this myself, so I can't vote for how well it works. Copy protection plays nice with my DVD drive...
    The problem is, with these newer games, you need more advanced copying software, of which a lot need payment to work anyways. Using a 1 year old program for breaking through the copy protection isn't going to work with newer games that enforce newer standards of CP

  10. #70
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    Since consoles are recovering the lost ground and PCs losing what they have conquered, can you see what the future will hold? In my view "One console in every household" in the years to come. The irony kills me...
    "One console in every household" - not in mine. Consoles don't have games I would play. And nothing will EVER make me play with something else than a keyboard and a mouse. Do consoles have hundreds of easy-to-use hotkeys? Can I easily check my email/messenger/web/music player or chat in XFire? Is typing messages in consoles as comfortable as in PC (I would never play an online game without chat)? Do consoles have the superior device called the "mouse"? Are there many open-source games for console? Can I easily test my own games on consoles without wasting DVDs/CDs? Can I run multiple games at the same time? Can I easily make screenshots/videos of games? How many multiplayer games are there for consoles? Do consoles have simple relaxing 2D games? Can I easily do live debugging on consoles?

    And the most annoying thing is that EVERY GAME IS ON A CD/DVD!?!?!? I mean... that is really lame. That is one reason why I hate commercial games on PC.

    The absolutely best thing about consoles is that I can put Linux on it.
    "The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

  11. #71
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxorator View Post
    Can I easily check my email/messenger/web/music player or chat in XFire?
    Chatting is PC territory, I would say.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxorator View Post
    ]Do consoles have the superior device called the "mouse"?
    No, but the Wii Remote can easily replace the mouse on games. Tried and true, it works.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxorator View Post
    ]Are there many open-source games for console?
    What does it matter if they're open source?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxorator View Post
    ]Can I easily test my own games on consoles without wasting DVDs/CDs?
    You could. But I don't think it would be easy or cheap

    Quote Originally Posted by maxorator View Post
    ]How many multiplayer games are there for consoles?
    Lots.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxorator View Post
    ]Do consoles have simple relaxing 2D games?
    Sure they do.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxorator View Post
    ]The absolutely best thing about consoles is that I can put Linux on it.
    Again, this is PC territory IMO. Consoles are meant to play, not run operating systems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  12. #72
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxorator View Post
    "One console in every household" - not in mine. Consoles don't have games I would play. And nothing will EVER make me play with something else than a keyboard and a mouse.
    Fair enough. One can always argue that not every household has a personal computer, as a certain gentleman would have liked.

    But I don't get it with the keyboard and mouse... I believe it's mute. A game interface changes according to the where it is supposed to be played on. You think a game for a console is designed to be played with a mouse and keyboard? Of course you don't. So what's your point?

    And... you can get keyboards and mice for most consoles. So... yeah.


    Quote Originally Posted by maxorator View Post
    And the most annoying thing is that EVERY GAME IS ON A CD/DVD!?!?!? I mean... that is really lame. That is one reason why I hate commercial games on PC.
    Again I'm confused. I would trust my backups to a CD/DVD before I would even think of storing anything on my hard drive. I have working CDs dating from the DOS times. Can't say the same of floppies or hard drives. Can you?

    The absolutely best thing about consoles is that I can put Linux on it.
    The absolutely best thing about consoles is that you can play games in it. Not always this is true of your PC back home.

    If you are not a gamer, or are too religious about PCs you won't want a console. I'll buy that. As I'll buy "I don't like consoles and I don't want to explain why". What I don't buy is the direction this thread took in which to justify one preference over another you folks think you need to bash, hit and plunder.

    In the end it only shows your blinding religious single-mindedness and your ignorance.

    EDIT: And It has been a pleasure to have been witnessing on the course of these 5 pages how deliciously appropriate the thread title has become
    Last edited by Mario F.; 03-21-2008 at 07:11 AM.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    And this is what makes it pathetic. Do a max level H264 encode and you'll see the 360 can't handle it (but the PC can handle it fine). That is what I call pathetic. The one and only true multimedia machine is the PC and nothing else should have such a title unless it can run every audio/video out there.

    With so much technology nowadays, the only thing worth having it terms of multimedia is the PC. It's sad, really...
    the 360 does support h264, and I can watch very high resolution 1080p vids via wmv as well. It's not a focused media center , but it does a good job for something that was designed for games, and I can watch most of my content on it when it's not dvd.

    The wm10 comment was on the pc side, because windows media is slow, shuts down often for no reason, and is just clunky.

  14. #74
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    If it should be called a media center, then IMO, it should support the full spec. Not just some "half" spec. That's not a media center.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  15. #75
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    Well maxorator, there is probably somewhat of a technical reason for PC ports which would answer your questions, but mostly I don't think they're questions the developers or marketeers would would want easy answers to. I mean, for example: it's certainly a degree simpler to capture footage of a PC game, but not impossible on a console. I'm glad it's not, but it's not like they're going to push consumers to purchase something like that.

    The simple solution to most of your problems though (at least if a console game lacks a port) would be emulation as long as you've legally purchased the games you simulate (to appease your conscience if nothing else). I wouldn't knock console entirely. Like the PC, some astounding games are on it.

    Are there many open-source games for console?
    If the era continues long enough, with the right variables at play, the open source culture will have an influence. Part of the difficulty though might be that consoles are constantly rebuilt and rebranded with new technology that isn't necessarily well-developed or opened up. Also consider that (many?) console games have graphics that are initially drawn by supercomputers and Joe, Inc. simply doesn't have that. Many console gamers have that sort of expectation. Consoles are really in an entirely different market and so many people can somehow afford to buy the latest and greatest.

    Can I easily test my own games on consoles without wasting DVDs/CDs? Can I run multiple games at the same time?
    Try rewriteable CDs and DVDs, they're awesome. As for running multiple games at the same time, no, you can't really do that on a console. But can you really play more than one game at a time?

    TL;DR: I don't think anything you've asked is a really legitamate criticism of the console platform, but I detect some hardline opposition in your tone.

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