12 year old in need of game programming advice

[thehack]

Hi all you game programmers. I am interested in learning how to create fps like quake and UT. I realise this is not easy and will take some time, but could anyone tell me where I could start? Will I need to create the graphics first? Or should i create a game engine first? Thanks in advance for your help!

[pdstatha]

Do you know how many people it takes to program a game like Quake?????

Not only that but it also takes a hell of a lot longer than ur average tic tac toe game. And thats for teams of experienced programmers.

If you are really interested in making games, then I suggest u do what everyone else does and start small. Program text based games first, one of the easiest text based games is perhaps a number guessing game.

[c++_n00b]

actually it didn't take too many people to make quake. ID software is a group of independent developers started by John Carmak or something of that sort.

And to thehack, I'm a beginner to. A few words of advice though:

Sorry man, but you can't just start out with the cool 3D stuff. You gotta start out witht he boring console program, learn the functions, then go onto Win32. After getting the feel for Win32 (which I haven't come close too yet :/ ), you can get into DirectX and OpenGL and all that stuff. Trust me, I have a feeling that this will take me half a year or so.

As long as you're determined to do it though, you will. It will be hard, but worth it. Um... and my first game I will ever make will be some old skool 2D RPG (which isn't neccesarily a bad thing).

Just don't expect to make the next Quake anytime soon... that would take years and like the other dude said it takes more than one person to do different elements of the game (graphics, sound, enging, etc.), although you don't exactly need 5 minute credits at the end of your game either : ). Just get the feel for it and take it one step at a time. Hope this helped. Oh, yeah, and here's some sites and stuff that i use:

www.cprogramming.com (that's this site right now in case you didn't know.. use the tutorials they're pretty helpful)

www.cplusplus.com

And you're local library. As much as I never cared for the library, it's got some good c++ books to get. I ordered them online and am waiting for them currently.

um... there's more so if you need any more help or anything pm me but as u can see I can't do all that much right now.

Lol, oh yeah. Get a good compiler like Microsoft Visual C++ 6.0 (ask for it for Christmas or birthday : )

[Dual-Catfish]

You'll also want to have this planned out when you get to high school.. advanced Math courses and Calculus will help you out immensly with 3D game programming.. :)

[Uraldor]

ID software is a group of independent developers started by John Carmak or something of that sort.

Erm, it's not really a bunch of independant game developers. And you say the name John Carmack like it's exactly that.. just a name.

The man is a legend. With someone like him on the team you don't need as many people as you would with just a bog-standard developer. Trust me, quake takes a lot of effort!

U.

[Magos]

Speaking of game designers, do you know if Shigeru Miyamoto is a programmer or if he's just a story writer/producer/whatever...?

[pode]

its true one person can do it alone if he can!
it may take im a while but it is possible

[Unregistered]

I don't much believe that a single person wrote any of these games. Look, think rationally, you cannot input more than 10 pages in a day, so even if you work all saturdays and sundays, it takes you a whole year only to input 200,000 lines. So I think also that these are often legends what help to advertise. There are so many programmers available and especially if you can afford some benefits to some of them, what sense it makes to do it alone.

[Tazar_Azar]

Magos, I believe that Shiggy is just a designer. Not POSITIVE, but that's what I've always thought. Since in all the interviews I've read with him (not many, interviews are boring :)) he just talks about the games being "innovative".

[pode]

but it is possible, right?

[Tazar_Azar]

Of course it's possible. Quite possible!

[Aran]

yeah, it's possible.

but to just make a rogue-like game like ADOM (http://adom.de) it takes at least a year with only one person working on it...

[danielthomas3]

Look, think rationally, you cannot input more than 10 pages in a day, so even if you work all saturdays and sundays, it takes you a whole year only to input 200,000 lines.

lol is that what's taking the doom series so long?

[Flikm]

hey, im 13(turned 13 on april 12th), and ive been coding for over a year now. here are some words of advice from my own experiences:

1. do not shoot for the stars (not just yet :))
2. read, code, read, code, read, code; thats the only way to learn
3. start working on a project that you can apply the skills that you learn and complete it as you learn, or work on it, and when you run into problems, read about it
4. dont talk when people are talking about something that you have no clue what :), instead, go read about it if youre really interested or you wanna fit in
5. learn to look up things(there are tons of references out there) before you ask questions
6. learn to write solid code in C/C++ before you try to learn any APIs
7. dont try to learn opengl as your first API, its just not that easy (a lot of people will disagree, but im talking from my own experiences)
8. dont give out your age too fast. a lot of people will either ignore you or flame you for being so young.

also, check out www.youngprogrammers.net. a lot of the people are as young as we are (well, younger than most of the people here :)).

[pode]

lol, thanks but i don't think i can take any advise from a 13 year old

[Flikm]

pode: was i talking to you????

[pode]

dont know if u was talking to me.

i was just expressig what i felt

about listening to kids :D

[Dual-Catfish]

dont give out your age too fast. a lot of people will either ignore you or flame you for being so young.


Point proven.

[Unregistered]

I take advice from 13 year old if he knows something what I don't know. But more than that I want to teach them, this is an instinct, you know. So Flikm, most of what you said was right but what I want to say about these items is that:

2. Don't just read code and guess, try more often what your code does, feel the computer.

4. Most often the problem is that people don't read anything at all before posting their messages. So if you read even that what is most easy to find, it's perfectly OK to talk about that what you don't understand.

8. People don't always flame you for being so young, they just tell you about their model of the society what may be outdated, but try to ignore what you don't agree with and don't be angry, you would not make anybody smarter that way.

[Leeman_s]

*you must feel the computer, experience the computer, you must BECOME the computer*....or something like that.

NOTE: generally I wouldnt take advice from 13 year olds, that is on anything....non-technical. See, things like programming anyone can learn, so i would take advice from everyone about that, but it takes TIME to gain wisdom...

[Unregistered]

Yes, I understand, "it takes time to gain wisdom" is a wisdom what took time to gain

[frenchfry164]

I'm 13, almost 14

I have been programming since I can remember (not in C++, I have done Delphi and BASIC in the past), and I have been programming in C++ for about 14 months. Programming may be hard at times, there were so many times I almost quit programming. But once you get the hang of the basic functionality of C++, it will be MUCH easier to learn new things.

Here is some advise, people may take it, abuse it how they want, but this is how I learned C++:

1. Go to www.cprogramming.com and read tutorials 1-17 two times. First time, skim through it, so you can at least remember what things do what, and where to use them. Next time study them. Go through and make sure you understand everything 1-17, then make a simple game that applies those skills.

2. Read the board FAQ. It has some misc. info for beginning programming.

3. Once you have done those two, search on the internet for C++ tutorials.

4. Once you know the structure and basic usage of C++, make several programs and games, it teaches you the most.

5. Whenever you have a problem, first read up on it, then post it here.

6. Instead of using other people's work, make your own. It may not be as good, or as fast, but you will learn the inner workings of different functions.

7. Make a nice game. Instead of making a lot of "learning" games, actually put some effort into it. Even if you are going to make utilities or word processors, game programming is very nice for a first project. It isn't so boring, it teaches you to program, while having fun. Once you start your game, try to get people at school to join your team. At my school nobody except for one person knows how to program (teachers and students included), and he can't do it that well, so it doesn't really help. So I have to use people at school just for artwork and ideas.

8. When you finish that project, you are set. Start learning Win32 if you did step 7 in DOS, or if you did step 7 in Windows, learn a Commercial library such as OpenGL, DirectX, Allegro, or anything like that. DO NOT LEARN AN OUTDATED LIBRARY SUCH AS GLIDE.

9. Well.....I can't go much further than this, for this is where I am. Currently I am learning DirectX, mainly DirectInput and DirectDraw right now. The next Direct thing I will learn will be DirectSound.

Sorry for this long post. I will probably get flamed because of all the opinions I put in there. All opinions above are IMHO, so don't think I'm stuck up.

[Unregistered]

> I will probably get flamed because of all the opinions I put in there.

No, not for that, but it was dull for me, I know it all. The most interesting was perhaps that even some teachers who teach programming don't know programming, but I know that also. There are just things that some people never learn, not only that they learn them slowly.

[Xterria]

I just turned 13 in late march, and I've been programming for...
wait...who are we talking to again? :confused:
theHack left awhile ago...

[Unregistered]

> BECOME the computer

How this can be done?

[Dual-Catfish]

>How this can be done?

Watch Star Trek, it's pretty easy to catch on.

[frenchfry164]

take glass cutters and crawl inside your monitor!

[bobish]

there actually are a number of freeware fps game out now a days. Most of them use other peoples engines but there is cube (a quake clone), and some others that haven't to to mind right now wich do use their own engine. None of these fps games are as good as something you'd buy in the store however they aren't to bad.

[Unregistered]

Okay, before you get into 3d you should make a small (say 5 levels) 2d game like Sonic The Hedgehog, on genesis. I would do the graphics first, so you can name your variables by graphic file names so that it is easier to read. But i don't think it matters really. I suggest you use Tile Studio to create your maps, levels, and charecter animations.

[zer0python]

THATS CHEATING !!! Hey, If you wanna be a programmer, learn how to make your own tiles and engines, dont use some program...

Also, I disagree about something someone said.. That you should
make a game before you make a utility! I prefer to make utilitys more then I like to make games! /* Perhaps thats why I suck at graphics so much?!?!? */:mad:

[~Kyo~]

if you write a game with a text based interface to start with you can easily upgrade to graphics later on.

[Bubba]

Don't bump 2 yr old threads.

[Eber Kain]

learn C++ syntax first. Do console programs and howework style stuff.

check into glut and do some graphics stuff.

when you get tired of its limitations work on your own win32 base code.

do some simple games, make a 3d card game or a 3d version of minesweeper.

Buy MSVC.

Revisit C++ learn the STL and read books about data structures, UNDERSTAND POINTERS. Learn more about classes and inheretence and more about the launguage.

Start a big project and not finish.

Repeat previous step about ten times.

Learn about the software design process.

Spend two months designing your next big project.

Start writing code.


Thats pretty much the path ive taken, I have spent alot of time coding and programming in general. It took me about 5 years to get to here. I think I may actually finish this big project.


(edit, 2 years... heh, didnt notice :))

[Vasant56]

I'm 17-18 and I know .......... about GUI's and stuff. But when I first started I tried to go straight to c++.. after about a week, I still knew ........... Then I started learning basic, worked on that for a few weeks, developed some skills, and then once I started looking at C++ and Java, it started to become clear. I suggest you start with a simple language like basic, just so you understand the concept and the general rules of programming, then move up to c++.. everything will be a lot more comprehensible, and you just keep learning from there.


You'll also want to have this planned out when you get to high school.. advanced Math courses and Calculus will help you out immensly with 3D game programming.. :)

Although I assume you'll have no idea how or why until you get there

[XSquared]

Don't bump 2 yr old threads.
^^^^

[Salem]

Playtime is over