Thread: Guantanamo

no offense kooma, but i think the reference to Auschwitz is disgusting...i can't believe people even choose that option. if it's how they feel, they view of the world is far from reality. if their responses were a joke, it's just sick...it's just my opinion, but i don't think it's cool at all. . .

>>but bin Laden's released at least 2 tapes where he talks about how the attacks were more successful than he hoped they would be.

Actually they were captured after the bombing. If that happened in the US would the video be allowed in court? I don't think so, illegially obtained.

Remember this is the first attack on mainland US since the war of Independence and the first attack on the US since Pearl Harbour.
These people did not plan the attack nor participate in it to a major degree, if they even knew of it. They are just foot soliders following orders.

There was the war of 1812...

>>What is that name of the New Station in the middle east? Bin Laden game it to them, how in the world is illigall obtained.

No the tapes of Bin Laudin discussing the attack with a Pakistani cleric were captured in Afghanistan. Tapes of him declaring Jihad were sent to the news station. (or so was reported here) All after the bombing had started.

>>OK novacain heres what I think, since your so sure that Bin Laden is inocent, then You Must be responsible.

I did not say I thought he was innocent, I said the prisoners that you have are not being treated in accordance with international law.
If the US is so great where is Bin Laudin. $6.4B and you can not find him.

If the prisoners are being treated fairly why is the American, Hicks is it, treated differently? Because he is a US citizen not an Afghanii / Pakistanii?

>>The fact that are compains emply people in 3ed world coutnries and pay them very little, but yet fail to relize that paying them more would cause more dammage then good.

WHAT! Are you serious. Paying people a wage they could live on rather than exploiting them, like 'The Gap' and 'Nike' do, would cause THEM problems? Name ONE.

Its attitudes like yours created Bin Laudin, and continue to create more. They are being trained as children to kill. Ah but then so are yours, only each other.
Soon even we will not allow your ships into our ports. New Zealand has already banned them. (and there ain't no other place to go down here!)

> How about the crimes your freedom/country did to them?

Name one.

> I wonder why did the tape visit holywood before it in the news..

Evidence, please - otherwise what you say is garbage.

> Because he is a US citizen not an Afghanii / Pakistanii?

Exactly. As a US citizen fighting against the US, he's subject to different laws. It wouldn't be very effective for us to hold other countries' citizens responsible for treason, would it?

> If that happened in the US would the video be allowed in court? I don't think so, illegially obtained.

Illegally obtained how? Also, they weren't presented in court...

> Why don't we turn this around a little. kooma, if bin Laden didn't do it, who did, and what do we do about it?

Who cares! It, and the unfortunant counter-strike, sure has open some eyes across the world (though somebodies tend to look to the wrong direction). Perhaps the same guy who played with anthrax...

>> How about the crimes your freedom/country did to them?

> Name one.

(I'm not speaking for novacain here, but...) So far, you (USA) have managed to accidentally kill at least twice as much civilians as did the WTC-strike (and this estimate is a careful one...). Count the destroyed homes, count the numerous refugees if you dare, but do remove that blindfold from your head.

But, I don't blame you for something you don't know. It's the Western media (which I experience here in Finland too), that keeps saying ``Bad Afganii!''. One who lives here must have a objective source of information - not that TV and newspaper.

> They are guilty of crimes against the freedom we all enjoy

I don't feel like enjoying much of a freedom here. I'm maybe doing it more than a refugee from Afganistan, but I'm certainly not free, int the true sense of the word! And the best country in the world, as you say, is sure not helping me to achieve it (or noone else - exclude American millionares...).

I see that were slipping from the path of facts and objectivity here... Not this much emotions please...

We killed 6000 civilians accidentally?

I highly doubt that - I'd like to see some of your "objective" information.

> Who cares!

Well, the people it happened to, for one. I don't think anyone who was in the WTC or lost friends and relatives would be very happy if Bush just said "Well, crap - that's no good"

> count the numerous refugees if you dare

You honestly believe US incursions into Afghanistan have caused more than the Taliban would have in the same amount of time?

>>It wouldn't be very effective for us to hold other countries' citizens responsible for treason, would it?

What are you holding them for then? Did the prisoners play any part in Sept 11? As Bin Laudin stated in the video, the bombers did not even know what they were going to actually do, I doubt the average fighter knew.

Look deep down, past the hype, to the base emotion. Is all this about JUSTICE or REVENGE?

For a moment transpose Afghanii for Irish, Taliban / Al Queda for IRA.
A lepricorn(?) was seen at the airport, passengrs called Paddy, Murphy and O'something, ect.

Would Ireland be in flames at the moment?

No, becuase AFAIK, the IRA doesn't run Ireland... If they did and they participated, I'm sure it would be.

> What are you holding them for then

Let's see - they came at us with guns...

> We killed 6000 civilians accidentally?
> I highly doubt that - I'd like to see some of your "objective" information.

"What causes the documented high level of civilian casualties -- 3,767 [thru December 6, 2001] civilian deaths in eight and a half weeks -- in the U.S. air war upon Afghanistan? The explanation is the apparent willingness of U.S. military strategists to fire missiles into and drop bombs upon, heavily populated areas of Afghanistan."

-- Professor Marc W. Herold, Ph.D., M.B.A., B.Sc.
from http://www.cursor.org/stories/civilian_deaths.htm

>> Who cares!
> Well, the people it happened to, for one. I don't think anyone who was in the WTC or lost friends and relatives would be very happy if Bush just said "Well, crap - that's no good"

One must see that terrorism is a symptom - the disease is much deeper; Don't scratch a scar or it might get infected (at least it makes the healing process longer).

> Most compaines pay miinumn wage in the country they are in. Some places don't follow the rules and they are punshed accoringly

When was the last time you heard about Nike/Chiquita/Kelloggs/Shell/etc. being in a court?

> The US as super power needs to be involved in the worlds politics, but it can't handle everything so it will go to the areas liek the middle east witch have a biger inpact on the world then lets say, some small coutnry in Africa

Ain't that a bit egoist/megalomanic point of view. Look in the past, and you'll see what has the white man's burden brought.