Bowling for Columbine

**PJYelton** · 09-05-2003

Unfortunately I've only got a few minutes so I can only argue one point:

>>Ok PJ simply because I don't want to debate the merits of a survey with you, I have work to do, lets assume the lowest value for the number of defensive gun uses in the source you provide. Lets assume that it is only 108,000. Even at that low amount that means that guns are used for defense almost 5 times more often then they are used to commit murder. 108,000 / 22,000 = 4.90909...<<

Now you are comparing ANY defensive gun use with only gun murders. The 108,000 includes such glorious things as some guy was looking at me funny in an alley so I pulled out my gun, and I saw a burglar and pulled out my gun when in reality it was just some poor homeless man who crashed out drunk on the guys lawn. Now, to the 22,000 murders, add on accidental deaths, gun crimes that could not have been committed without the gun, AND of course the thousands of injuries that aren't included in the murders because the person wasn't killed just very badly injured. Now you'll see that the numbers are greatly against defensive gun use.

We've already shown that the idea people will kill without guns anyways is flawed. The only proof that they are used defensively on a regular basis is a flawed 10 year old survey. And every day more and more people are getting killed and injured by guns that are easily available and that are so simple to use a 5-year old can kill a grown man! If you know some magical way to know who will and who won't use a gun properly then let us know, but I know that humans are idiots are for every 10 law abiding citizens there's some moron who might use his gun (or leave it out for someone else to use) to the detriment of someone elses life if the circumstances came about. And the fact that you are willing to sacrifice these peoples lives under the unlikely assumption - brought up by the flawed survey - that it might help you someday just staggers my mind!

And unless your friend had plans on petting the crocodile, the thing is NOT dangerous. Jeez, call the cops, they get there in a few minutes with animal control, and just stay upstairs. But no, with a gun its always shoot first ask questions later

**PJYelton** · 09-05-2003

One last thing that is included in the number of people guns save is the STUPID idea that people get in their heads that they are safe since they have a gun. A woman walking down the street at night sees a dark alley, no gun she says no way! Give her a gun and suddenly there that increase chance of "I'm safe, I have my gun!". So she walks down it, sure enough some guy attacks her and she protects herself with her gun. "Thank god my gun saved me!" NO! She was an idiot for walking down that alley to begin with and her gun gave her a false sense of security. But of course it goes into the statistic of a gun saving someones life...

**Waldo2k2** · 09-05-2003

The only thing i have to say about the whole thing is that statistics prove absolutely nothing. Especially gun violence stats, had it been the middle ages it would have been a study on sword violence. (Except no one would have cared back then but that's not my point)
I haven't seen the video, I don't want to see it. I know what happened, so does everyone else who ever watched the news during that time. Does he really do anything in that video besides point out our failing youth and the degredation of society? Cause that's the kind of person he comes off as to me, and from what I've heard about it that's all it is.

**ZakkWylde969** · 09-05-2003

I think this thread is getting a little far fetched but a gun is tool. A knife is a tool. A gun is something that can be used for good or bad. Same with a knife. Now you have already talked about how the "robber" uses a knife. Now should we ban knives also now?

**anonytmouse** · 09-07-2003

If you go to this page you can figure out your chances of dying in different ways (in US):
http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10.html

I notice that US's per capita gun toll is higher than most Western nations road toll. Wow!

It seems that nearly ten kids a day are blown away. This must be acceptable to most Americans?!

Thirteen preopled died by "over exertion"! Good reason not to exercise!

**Brian** · 09-07-2003

People will always kill each other if they have the means to do so. This will never, ever stop. Take away the guns, take away the means, take away the deaths.

**confuted** · 09-07-2003

Originally posted by anonytmouse
It seems that nearly ten kids a day are blown away. This must be acceptable to most Americans?!

In a country of 280 million people? Yes.

**Thantos** · 09-07-2003

It seems that nearly ten kids a day are blown away. This must be acceptable to most Americans?!

Just think of it as population control.

BTW I'm just kidding

**Clyde** · 09-07-2003

In a country of 280 million people? Yes.

Since when is it ever acceptable for innocent people to be killed?

**ZakkWylde969** · 09-07-2003

With those two things said I have come to the conclusion we lose one twenty eight millionth of our population everyday. Now how many kids are born a day? I would have to say just about that. It is another thing that keeps the United States from being overpopulated. We could have a population like China and have things allot worse off. Stop complaning about how bad we have it until you think about things in the large perspective please.

**damn someone beat me to it....**

**Clyde since as you know the earth isnt flat, you should also know people die everyday and if only non innocent people should die the world would soon overpopulate and death would come in masses from epidemics like SARS and such.

**RobR** · 09-07-2003

Originally posted by ZakkWylde969
if only non innocent people should die the world would soon overpopulate and death would come in masses from epidemics like SARS and such.

LMFAO!!!!

"I'm sorry I shot him your honour. I was saving the world from overpopulation"

**Clyde** · 09-07-2003

**Clyde since as you know the earth isnt flat, you should also know people die everyday and if only non innocent people should die the world would soon overpopulate and death would come in masses from epidemics like SARS and such

Listen dung for brains,

1) Just because people do die all the time doesn't mean we should simply sit back and do $$$$ all about it.

2) Last time i checked there was still a maximum human life span.

Yay lets not bother helping starving nations thats population control, let poor people die because they can't afford proper medical care thats population control. Heil $$$$ing Hitler.

**ZakkWylde969** · 09-07-2003

There is a large difference in murdering thousands of people and natural deaths. There isn't a maximum human life span. That is based of averages dung for brains. You really need to learn to control your attitude and think things through. Starving nations are starving because they are poor and there are too many of them. I'm not saying that shooting people is good because it isn't. Overpopulation IS a problem just like gun violence. You just look those facts over where I do not. If no one died from accidents and everyone died from this life limit of yours then there would soon be way too many people. China has realized this and has set a limit on the amount of children you can have. Stop being an ignorant ass and think about what you say. You have no legit input on this conversation at all other than 5 year old insults.

**Clyde** · 09-07-2003

There isn't a maximum human life span

Know any 200 year olds?

You really need to learn to control your attitude and think things through.

You're a moron and i've thought more in a day than you ever will.

Starving nations are starving because they are poor and there are too many of them

Obviously the solution is to kill them all then, GIVE THE MAN A PRIZE.

not saying that shooting people is good because it isn't

Well done.

Overpopulation IS a problem just like gun violenc

Overpopulation is a problem because people don't use birth control enough.

You just look those facts over where I do not. If no one died from accidents and everyone died from this life limit of yours then there would soon be way too many people

Listen i'll try and make this as simple as possible so even people with the IQ of a mollusc will understand:

1) The "limit" is a statistical limit the older you get the more likely you are to die, its called aging, perhaps you've heard of it.

2) Accidents only significantly affect end population size if they kill people BEFORE they reproduce otherwise their effect is pretty mute because everyone dies eventually anyway.

3) The populations where people being killed before they reproduce actually has a large population stabilising effect are 3rd world countries, but then part of the reason people in 3rd world countries have so many children is because so many die.

I don't know if you've noticed or not but most 1st world countries do not have tremendous population problems in fact, in some countries we are starting to see population DECLINE.

China has realized this and has set a limit on the amount of children you can have

Right, and? You think we should celibrate every time we hear that a chinese kid has been killed? YAY another step for population control.

You see, there is a difference between limiting reproduction whether it be by pushing birth control or more drastic measures like China and accepting early death as something thats "ok".

Stop being an ignorant ass and think about what you say

Yea because uhhhhhh i've never like uhhhhh thought about stuff lik this uhhhh before.

MORON.

You are what's wrong with this $$$$ing world, people who sit back and invent stupid ass reason why they shouldn't care about other people being hurt:

10 people are shot a day? Oh well keeping the population down.

1000 people killed in an earthquake? Oh well keeping population down.

5000 people killed in a building oh well keeping population down.... oh wait a minute those are MY people, the bastards! Everybody we have stop this, how dare they, OMG OMG OMG.

**ZakkWylde969** · 09-07-2003

I see you edited your responce of all mistakes so you wouldn't look like a moron while trying to insult me. Let me recap.

>>Know any 200 year olds?

Ever look at the words following my statement?

>>You're a moron and i've thought more in a day then you ever will.

Really? you don't act like you are thinking things through. Your most complex sentence is an insult. Didn't think about that did you?

>>Obviously the solution is to kill them all then, GIVE THE MAN A PRIZE

When did I ever say we should celebrate death? I said it is natural and it happens for a reason. You are really misunderstanding what I say for someone with such a bright look on everything and a huge IQ.

>>Overpopulation is a problem because people don't use birth control enough

And death is the natual way to control overpopulation as I have stated.

>>Right, and? You think we should celibrate every time we hear that a chinese kid has been killed? YAY another step for population control.

Another example of ignorance. I have already said that I don't celebrate murder. I just look at it in how it actually is. Your little ending in the end is just amazing. You go from 10 people in an entire country over the span of 24 hours to 5,000 people in less than an hour in one building. I must say for a super genious that is an amazing example there.

I would have to say that you haven't actually gone through what I have said and really thought about it. Instead you have gotten uptight and emotional over what I have said and made conclusions that are wrong. And drop the stupid insults. They are pointless.