Thread: this really upsets me, civilians in marketplace die

>Sry but yesterday i watched something about vietnam and the
>images you saw there cant compete against those we see now.

Then look at Al Jazeera instead of western TV stations if you want to see such.

>too bad that Saddam is too stupid to use his mass destruction weapons

He knows public opinion will be totally against him when he uses mass destruct weapons, probably only when he has nothing more to lose he will use them I'm afraid. They inspectors couldn't find them, but I think he has them. Perhaps they were kept in a safe place, like in Libia or some other country. I don't know, it is all speculation.

>last week i heard on radio... 1 farmer has shot a helicopter out
>the air ..reports iraqi ppl.... next minute you hear general or Lt
>whoever, said they were facing serious antiaircraft $$$$ etc..

At the Dutch television I heard that the helicopter pilot had made a forced landing. The helicopter looked quite undamaged and, unless I have missed something, the pilots were not found.

And yes, public opinion is quite powerfull. The difficult thing however is that public opinion is heavily based on the reports the public sees on TV, hears on radio and reads in papers. Those reports are often controlled and often in some way biassed.

Invading Iraq seems pointless unless we stop everyone else who poses a potential threat.

I can imagine the horrors of war without having to see an Iraqi child with his brains blown out on the ground. Unfortunately, before this war began, the majority of war supporters had a simplistic line of thinking: (1) America is great, good, and powerful; (2) America is right and knows best; (3) Saddam Hussein is an evil "one of them" who has committed genocide against his own people; (3) Saddam is trying to get weapons he can use against American interests; (4) the president said he had to go so let's get out the flag and support our fighting men and women who are defending God and country! Too many people follow this line because they are ignorant: They don't bother thinking about history, cultural differences, the possibility that America is not perfect, etc. All they know is the biased propaganda they've known since they were born and which the news media, which are owned by corporate conglomerates, continue to show.

Every time someone, knowledgably or ignorantly, chooses to speak his or her opinion against this war, that person is drowned out by a flood of "patriots" dressed in their red, white, and blue parroting the Bush propaganda they've heard without ever considering that maybe President Bush is not right. It's not that I don't value diversity of opinion, but what these "patriots" are doing is disgusting: Why can't people just use their brains for a change? I've heard too much about the pro-war demonstations already. When are the media going to realize there is a minority in this country (10-25% I'd estimate) that values more intellectual depth in foreign policy than blind patriotism. Americans are marching like lemmings behind Bush, Cheney, and the rest of the administration over a cliff.

So much for dreams of democracy and civil liberties for Iraqis if they become indignant after their "liberation" and democratically elect a government even more anti-American than Saddam Hussein's! So much for liberty in Iraq if a fundamentalist Islamic revolution were to happen afterwards as happened in Iran. So much for national security if Islamic terrorists and anti-Americans in general become more imbittered, and our allies in Europe couldn't care less after Bush's betrayal.

So much for peace if pre-emption means taking on one "rogue state" after another in an effort to accomodate a global atmosphere supportive of unrestrained corporate growth.

The sooner that Saddam is exhiled, or fataly injured, the sooner we can stop worrying about it all and go onto the next 'big chapter' of our lives.

>The sooner that Saddam is exhiled, or fataly injured, the sooner we can stop worrying about it all and go onto the next 'big chapter' of our lives.
No, it's not as simple as it sounds. America had created enough enemies for itself till now and this move (war) is just a littile more "fuel to fire" to the cause of global islamic fundamentalism, which is only going to grow more.

>>>islamic fundamentalism
>[sarcasm]and what a better way to put out the good word on your religion by blowing stuff up[/sarcasm]

"Fundamentalism" is the word understood by this world for anything related to the Muslims and their strife, and it was only in this context did I refer it with this term. Otherwise, in a language not understood to others it is called "Jehad".

Yes, also the conflict between protestants and catholics in Northern Ireland has a bit to do with Christian fundamentalism. Also in other parts of Europe there are Christian fundamentalists who disagree with eachother, usually they don't use very much violence to fight eachother, but there sure is aggression between several Christian groups. The only thing is that their violence is usually a little less extreme than Muslim fundamentalists use and therefore it is less in the news.