US attack in Iraq (WAR Talk)

**Govtcheez** · 03-28-2003

> plus , what is it about this language(english) police on this board?

Nothing at all, it's just that half your posts make little-to-no sense.

Eh, to hell with it. I give up.

**SAMSAM** · 03-28-2003

I guess i made a good choice not to take literature
as my major.otherwise it would have been an epic
battle to get published.

My problem is that i write hastily & assume the reader
is on the same train of thought as i am. i confess.

Govtcheez

"Nothing at all, it's just that half your posts make little-to-no sense"

Read the other half that does

**OneStiffRod** · 03-28-2003

SAMSAM is saying that the only reason Saddam agreed to the UN inspections this round was b/c the US & UK put enormous military pressure on him... IE Inspections don't work and haven't worked but it was military pressure - the proverbial knife to the throat...

Saddam knew he could keep the inspectors out of his military places and keep secret his hidden bunkers, probably located underneath an oridinary home in a civilain neighborhood...

Why didn't the Inspectors find any of those Antropene or whatever injections that are only good for counter-acting nerve agents - or how about the thousands of chemical warfare gear and suits - that is a smoking gun...

The dirty little secret is that France, Germany, and the rest of the Inspection advocates didn't want inspections in the first place either... they just wanted the whole iraq situation to disapeer and their appetite for continuing the sanctions was diminishing rapidly - it was the US who led the Inspection Resolution 1441 not the French or Germans.

**dP munky** · 03-28-2003

you know, i wasnt gung-ho about war but OSR's got a good point (yes, i said it) if we didnt have a knife to the guy's throat we wouldnt have gotten anything from the guy, and then we go in and in a week have found 1000 times more than we did w/12 years of "inspections" (chemical buildings built to be hidden from sattelites, the hospital w/those injector things)[rant] but the thing that ........es me off most is when they ambush our guys (i know its war it happens) take em prisoner and ***king execute them especially when there freaking mechanics n' stuff like that, the brits are havin the same thing happen to their troops[/rant]

**rick barclay** · 03-28-2003

Originally posted by Govtcheez
> plus , what is it about this language(english) police on this board?

Nothing at all, it's just that half your posts make little-to-no sense.

Eh, to hell with it. I give up.

I read sam sam's post and thought it made sense. If you want
an explanation, pm me.

**no-one** · 03-28-2003

Out of Rummys own mouth, the Fid Ayin(Fed Ayeen), and or the Ba'ath, and or other Paramitilarys Iraqi's, are dressing up as U.S. and British soldier getting their guys to surrender and then executing them as an example.

**SAMSAM** · 03-28-2003

I think if Bush Sr had finished the run to baghdad and
toppled sadam in 91 the whole dynamic of the middle east
would have been changed for the better and the arab israeli
peace would have been initiated.
and most of all an idiot like ben laden wouldnt be able to
steal the show in the vaccum of us inaction.hence 9/11
would in most probable term never happen.

but as you know he had elections coming up and wanted
a happy ending fast.

but the junior is no fancy diplomat with big words .and no matter how awkward he looks on center stage , he is focused like an energizer bunny. and as always with an element of luck
behind him(detective clouseaue in pink panther ) .

He will win this war not because he is brilliant but because
he is a risk taker & not too keen on details.(he woud have been
kicked from this board for his spelling problem).

look at afghanistan.it could have been worse than vietnam.

He either through negligence or a well thought plan has
gained the respect(not love) of his arab enemies by putting
ground forces on the iraqi soil from the first day of the war.
thus shutting out the voices that say"here comes the cowardley american invasion from the air".

LUCK:

And his Luck Has It, that on the most important & crucial day of
the infantry drive in iraq which is the crossing of the euphrates
river , the enemy troops couldnt see his army.because of the
biggest sandstorm in recent memory AND even worse.the iraqis
forgot to or couldnt destroy the bridge that was boobi trapped
to the rim. go figure.

run forest run!. u b the 1 laughing l8er .

**dP munky** · 03-28-2003

>>but the junior is no fancy diplomat with big words .and no matter how awkward he looks on center stage , he is focused like an energizer bunny

i agree w/that, i like this president for that very reason, he's not a fancy diplomat that simply "talks the talk" while getting a blo...(sorry, getting off track) i wasnt sure about him at first ya know, it didnt really bother me, him or gore, i didnt really care, but it was on sept. 12 when he was standing on the rubble of the building w/all those guys and he almost cried......not because he's a lil $$$$$, but because he was so enraged. ya know the rage you get when you just wanna AAARRRGHHHHH

ever since i've been behind him 100% and personally i think he's done a damn good job

**Shiro** · 03-29-2003

>I think if Bush Sr had finished the run to baghdad and
>toppled sadam in 91 the whole dynamic of the middle east
>would have been changed for the better and the arab israeli
>peace would have been initiated.
>and most of all an idiot like ben laden wouldnt be able to
>steal the show in the vaccum of us inaction.hence 9/11
>would in most probable term never happen.

Afghanistan 1979-82 - US supports, arms, trains Mujahadeen rebels including rebel leader Osama Bin Laden.

Iraq 1987-88 - US supports and arms Saddam Hussein's Iraq in war against Iran

The world is a dynamic and changing thing, we can only tell if something is "better" after it has happened.

**dP munky** · 03-29-2003

>>Afghanistan 1979-82 - US supports, arms, trains Mujahadeen rebels including rebel leader Osama Bin Laden.

we were enemies w/russia, we wanted to make it harder for them so we trained rebel forces, funny how we're facing the same thing now in iraq...all these irregual forces

>>Iraq 1987-88 - US supports and arms Saddam Hussein's Iraq in war against Iran

you failed to mention how we scratched his back and then he used what we gave him against his own population.

>>The world is a dynamic and changing thing

yes the world is a dynamic and changing thing, but you posted those facts out of context, thats just like saying....

1945: US drops atomic bomb on Herosima killing 47,000 people instantly and 100's of thousands die from radiation poisioning

**Shiro** · 03-30-2003

Seemed my point was a bit unclear. I was reacting on some parts of the post of SAMSAM, like

"I think if Bush Sr had finished the run to baghdad and
toppled sadam in 91 the whole dynamic of the middle east
would have been changed for the better and the arab israeli
peace would have been initiated."

I think it is too easy to think like that. Maybe Arab Israeli peace would have been initiated, maybe a larger war would have begin if Bush sr. had run to Bagdad.

The world is too complex to be able to answer if-questions. Often things don't go as you would expect, especially when it comes to events which have impact on the whole world or a large part of it.

**OneStiffRod** · 03-30-2003

All the american officials involved have answered this question -- it just wasn't gonna work to pull along all those countries, especially the arab ones and convince them to go to baghdad...

Besides that, everyone agreed that saddam was politically finished and that there was no way in hell he could survive in power much longer -- as the whole southern region of his country rose up and started resisting.

However, the first BUSH made a huge mistake and the coalition made a mistake -- Gen. Norman Swhartzkoff stated regret that he hadn't made saddam himself come to the armistice talks and sign the document -- b/c as a result saddam was able to call the GULF WAR I a victory for him... and BUSH encouraged the southern SHIA's and NORTHERN KURDS to rise up in resistance but BUSH offered no real support to these groups such as arms and money - only encouragement and some CIA help for intelligence. BUSH I was very reluctant to give arms or substantive support to these resistance groups b/c he hoped for a military coup. and giving arms to splinter groups could splinter iraq and make a military coup impossible. The final mistake was allowing saddam to fly his helicopters in the no-fly zones so he could put down the resistance ruthelessly.

This war is a rectifying of bad decisions made by BUSH Sr. -- not only bad decisions in regards to iraq but other decisions the first BUSH made that will come to bite us in the butt today -- I am for this war since it will finally create a solution to a problem that was festering and only gonna get worse.

**novacain** · 03-30-2003

novacain>> That is, they are called 'ILLEGAL COMBATANTS' by the US so you don't have to give them the rights due POW's under the Geneva convention.<<

no-one>>thats the general idea.<<

Actually the big reason is that under the Geneva Convention the prisoners have the right to remain silent, you only have three months to process them and they have legal representation rights.

All denied to those in Camp X-Ray.

So the US can violate International Law to suit its own agenda, but demand others abide by the same International Law?

If you do not apply the Geneva convention to non US prisoners under US control how can you demand US captured military be treated under the Geneva convention?

(I am refering to the showing of footage of US POW's NOT unconfirmed reports by Gen Pace of suspected war crimes ie executions)

>>yeah, if im not mistake he confirmed it and, i think Blair confirmed that they are doing it to the brits now, so STFU.

All I can find on Google is unconfirmed. You say it is fact but refuse to back it up with data. I have seen the footage from the net. In war people get shot, some even get shot in the head.

Remember the Kuwaiti propaganda before the last Gulf war?

Hundreds of babies thrown on the floor to die as Iraqis took the incubators from the hospitals? Used to rally support for the war in congress by GWB's dad.

Six times in one month Bush snr referred to "312 premature babies at Kuwait City's maternity hospital who died after Iraqi soldiers stole their incubators and left the infants on the floor,"

Pity it was all a lie, Kuwait did not even have 100 incubators. Cost Kuwait US$12 mill (as reported on "60 Minutes") to a US promotions firm Hill & Knowlton. Their other famous client was Clinton (1998).

Again please post a link to any confirmed report.

Until then I will not follow you in jumping to conclusions.

>>OSR Inspections don't work and haven't worked but it was military pressure

Between 1991 and 1998, UNSCOM inspectors supervised the destruction of over 40,000 filled and unfilled chemical munitions, 411 tonnes of bulk CW agents, 15,000 rockets and 242 tonnes of precursors for VX. UNSCOM destroyed Iraq's declared Biological Weapons facilities and set up monitoring of dual-use equipment at other facilities.

The IAEA learned that in 1991, Iraq was within 6 to 24 months of building a nuclear explosive device. UN inspectors from the IAEA destroyed, removed or placed under monitoring all of Iraq's known nuclear-related facilities and materials during the UNSCOM inspections 1991 to 1998.

No good at all............

**dP munky** · 03-31-2003

>>All denied to those in Camp X-Ray
are the detainees at x-ray even POW's?

**zahid** · 03-31-2003

Originally posted by Commander
it's gonna b a long war.......
even if saddam is overthrown, his supporters will keep fighting...

I was out of world

Lot's of progress.

How did you know that? Ooo, I forgot you are the commander.

I'm afraid if even a single Arab country go with Iraqi people. Few Arabians are going to Iraq to fight for them. This number can increase dramatically and will complicate the war, and their country will be shaky. Specially if US shows aggressive attitude, middle east is aware of future US attitude in the region and Israel. I'm really seeing the war interesting from Arabians point of view.

Ohh and of course the UN is dead. I'm sorry to say that.