Thread: Training children to commit suicide.

my post was not directed at a particular person, but rather at anyone claiming by any stretch of the imagination that muslim extremists had any right whatsoever to do what they did.

in my eyes, defending or justifying them is as bad as committing the crime itself. backing their actions gives them more confidence in the future to perform more heinous acts.

and, since continual referances are made to saddam hussein, i think anyone as insane as this man clearly is deserves to be removed from power and, if possible, shot without trial. and not because of what he 'might' do, but because of what he does on a daily basis.

and, as a side note, dont tell me that if your country was the only major super-power in a world full of quarreling, ungrateful, power hungry zealots it would do anything different. by 'policing' the world we are protecting our own interests.

>My point was, when are American's going to realize that it is NOT their responsibility to poilice the world? Who elected you? Who chose you? God? That's a laugh

so its ok to kill innocent american citizens who have no control over their leaders? thats what your words seem like to me. ive said this before: I did not choose to be an american, and even though i enjoy my life as an american, i have no control over what the leaders of my country do. if you want a peaceful world, STOP SUPPORTING TERRORISM. bombing me will not help your cause in the least.

Ok, I'll post one more clarifier. Perhaps I was unclear in my original post, but I never once said I supported their actions. What I said is that it is unwise to underestimate the willingness to give your life for a cause.


"I personally am being targeted by some people i had never heard of until a year or so ago for something I had nothing to do with. suddenly there is a war being waged against me and there isnt a thing i could say to these people to stop it. its not like my country was streaming cruise missles into their towns on a daily basis. we had done absolutely nothing and suddenly there is a jihad cruisading into our cities killing people that didnt even know what jihad means." ...

In Afghanistan, the fraction of population that the Al Quaida(sp?) make up is insignificant, yet, the American population thought that it was justifiable to bomb their cities and towns. How does that make you morally superior again?

Not to mention the fact that the US isn't under attack because of its wealth or prosperity, but because the US dictates policy around the world. To say that you are under attack simply because of your wealth is naive and shows just how little you are involved in your country's politics.

Much of this started with the formation of Israel. I support the nation of Israel, but I'm not ignorant to the fact that Palestine was STRIPPED of the territory that makes up Israel. You're trying to tell me that this wouldn't ........ you off?

Finally, if the US attacks Iraq, won't Iraq's allies be angry and want vengeance? Since no one can directly assault the US, they end up using terrorism. I call terrorism a cowardly act by nature, although sometimes even a pawn has courage.

When it comes down to it, the US is the only nation in the world to use a weapon of mass destruction against a civilian population, anyway. NO ONE else has done this, yet you still think you have the moral highground here. Tell me why, so I can understand.

Oh, and before I go, nations fight and civil wars rage. Tell me, would the north and south have liked it if a larger, more powerful nation stepped in and put a stop to your war of independence? Told you to live together in peace? With two sides who hated each other being forced to live together, the US would never have come so far. When it comes down to it, if a nation is fighting a civil war, the US has no right to step in. If two nations are fighting a war and neither requests the US's help, the US has no right to step in. This is what you so quickly seem to forget.

i never ever said i was morally superior.

i said i have the right to live and no one has the right to kill me.

>To say that you are under attack simply because of your wealth is naive and shows just how little you are involved in your country's politics

would that the world could forget the words 'politics' or 'war.' remember, we are all supposed to be the same species. we are supposed to be working together, and im sure the world would be a lot further along if we had. i have a pet chihuahua, and he doesnt care if the rump he is smelling is a laborador or a poodle. why should we... (assuming we like smelling rumps)

>would the north and south have liked it if a larger, more powerful nation stepped in and put a stop to your war of independence?

i consider england a more powerful nation, and if i remember my history texts correctly, england tried to stop us from being a country alltogether. im sure if england had bombers and sattelites, they would have bombed the heck out of us during the civil war and took it all for themselves. i dont hate english people because of it...

>the US is the only nation in the world to use a weapon of mass destruction against a civilian population, anyway. NO ONE else has done this, yet you still think you have the moral highground here

you forget that when these nuclear bombs were dropped, people had no idea they were going to be as destructive as they were. they didnt know about fallout or nuclear winter. plus, this was over 50 years ago, neither me nor any leaders of this country had anything to do with the bombs on japan in WW2. this is like black people still complaining about slavery and wanting everyone that may or may not have had great great great great grandparents that might have known someone who was related to someone that owned a slave to pay repairations for all the damage done to modern black people who have never seen a cotton field in their life. i bet abraham lincolns great grandchildren are paying repairations. STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT THE PAST, IT CANT BE CHANGED.

i dont like to argue. i hate that wanting world peace is seen as grounds for debate. this fact alone shows me what state the world is in right now...

Why is the US citizen responsible?


The US government allows its companies to PROFIT from arms sales to these places. See US Senate's committee on banking, housing and urban affairs report, 'US Chemical and Biological Warfare-Related Dual-Use Exports to Iraq', into arms sales to Iraq (right up until March 1992).

This included anthrax, brucella melitensis (which damages major organs), clostridium perfringens (which causes gas gangrene), VX nerve gas, salmonella, E coli, West Nile fever germs and botulism.

I quote the report
"The United States provided the government of Iraq with 'dual use' licensed materials which assisted in the development of Iraqi chemical, biological and missile-system programmes."

The US gov then decides that it does not like the way that these 'arms ' are possibly going to be used.

If the average US citizen is not responsible for the actions of the country they live in then answer me this;

Why Australians (and others) should spend our taxes and our soldiers lives to get these items back?

Why the US government can dictate to the UN (ie the rest of the world) what regimes are allowed and which are not?

Who is responsible for the actions of the US government? (now and in selling these items to Iraq)



Just as you don't think you are responsible, do you think the average Iraqii thinks they are responsible for Sadam's actions?

What do you think their reaction will be when bombs start dropping on their homes and factories?

Who will THEY blame, the US or Sadam?

If they decide to blame the US I would not expect the level of terrorism to drop any time soon.

I love how ppl think the US was not justified for what we did in Afghanistan - we were totally justified, in fact we gave the TALIBAN a full month to comply or else - handover bin laden and the terrorists or else.

1 month passed and or else came to the taliban - within 6 weeks the whole country was liberated - remember we also allied ourselves with the northern alliance and today most of the population are happy that their repressive regime is gone. Measure 6 weeks against the 25+ years that country has been at war.

I heard alot of moronic arguments lately that war is never JUSTIFIED - are u saying that includes world war 2, the Korean war and a host of others - maybe we shoulda just laid down and gave in to the japanese.

We have given IRAQ 12 years to dissarm ITSELF or ELSE... 12 friggin years, now I say that is generous beyond beleif. Or ELSE is upon us NOW and IRAQ will capitulate - the arguments for war were delivered today at the UN by Sect. COLIN POWEL. This is tant amount to a GREEN LIGHT we are going and the UN and the rest of the world will not stop us and since I am a gamblin man - Australia, Britain, Italy, and probably France are gonna go in with us. You either play the game or sit on the bench and when the S*** goes down those countries and probably more will choose to play with the US.

Also, I have never seen the US stop any war that was not wanted to be stopped. In Kosovo and Bosnia it was EUROPE who led the attacks and really commanded the whole thing as it was a EUROPEAN problem - the US provided significant military assets in those operations but only b/c it commitments to NATO required us to.

I heard some of our retired generals speculating that in Baghdad we're gonna cut off their water and food supplies and starve them out - so I don't know what ya'll are whining about your soldiers are gonna be in the 'rear with the gear' serving american soldeirs meals and polishering their tanks. In fact that's all we're ax'in fer is your cooks, waiters/waitresses, and cleaning personel.


Shine my shoes, BOY!

>We have given IRAQ 12 years to dissarm ITSELF or ELSE... 12 friggin years, now I say that is generous beyond beleif

On WHAT authority CAN the US say "DO xzy OR else"

>I heard some of our retired generals speculating that in Baghdad we're gonna cut off their water and food supplies and starve them out

Yeah, AND how MUCH of the general POPULATION will be AFFECTED by this -- DO THEY deserve to be punished FOR what SADDAM has DONE?

Maybe you're right. You see, I'm feeling unusually prejudice toward novacane, ..., and *ClownPimp* as we speak. No, not for their race, religion, or nationality, but for their sheer stupidity. I suppose prejudice toward stupid people could be seen as a character flaw. As an american with this character flaw I think I can understand you're hatred now. Damn me. Damn america.

of course that brings up an interesting conflict or paradox if you will. if it's my stupid people bias that makes be bad, then how is it that someone so stupid could be so right about america. oh the conflict!

Hmmm....interesting...Let's see....

If the US is justified in attacking Afghanistan, then Japan was justified in Pearl Harbor. The US was dictating world policy again, with most of the world aquiescing to their demands. Japan was a few months away from a total economic collapse. How many would have starved and died in poverty?
Then you say, "We didn't know that a nuke would cause mass destruction, so it's not OUR fault." Really? You mean to tell me that after numerous tests and experiments, AND after the warnings from the scientists who helped developed fission, that the US can claim ignorance for one of the worst terrorist attacks in modern history? That's typical of the American "It's somebody else's fault" mentality.

Moving on.....
No one has yet admitted that the US does not know better than the rest of the world. You make it sound as though your civilization is the best on earth. Take a minute and look at your crime rate. It's the worst in the world, and yet you feel sanctimonious enough to tell other nations that their ways are "backward" or "sexist" or "barbaric". Now you tell me "Why can't we all just get along?" Why don't you ask yourselves that? How often has another country stepped in to stop the US from doing something? And on the rare times that someone has, what has the US done in response? Bomb their country.

Back to WW2, I find it interesting that you say that that war was justified, but only mention the pacific theater. Hitler was commiting mass genocide, yet the US didn't step in until Britain had gained the upper hand. Apparently, the US won't fight a war it's not sure it can win even though millions may die in concentration camps. Where is that moral superiority now?

The best of American hypocrisy came with 9/11. The World Trade Center fell and the US demanded the total surrender of the Taliban. Okay, I understand that. I really do. Unfortunately, your entire perspective was negated with what you did after that. Israel has been under constant terrorist attack since it's inception in the late forties. (Can't remember the exact year). So, while you aggresively attack the Taliban for one act of terrorism, you tell Israel that it has no right to counter attack Palestine for MANY acts of terrorism. Who the hell do you think you are? If anyone has the right to aggresively defend it's sovreignty with lethal force, its Israel, but the US denounced the helicopter strikes while F-18s demolished towns and villages in Afghanistan. What I want someone to answer is this : If it's okay for you to use lethal force to assasinate terroists, why can't Israel?

Finally, to any American who would say that its not their responsibility when their government does something, then why was it necessary to nuke Japan? Attack Vietnam(Even though the only problem with Vietnam was its ideology)? Smash the entire economy of Iraq? Sanction Cuba(Not to mention your deplorable handling of the Elian Gonzalez incident : Since when is it okay to use the plight of a small boy to pressure a foriegn nation?)? Hell, the US even tried to sneak attack Canada simply because you wanted to expand your border. Much of this did happen a long time ago, and I'd be happy to let it go, but the US is using events long past to justify current actions. If you can, so can we,

Yours and others lack of knowledge about history astounds me - I am conflicted on whether to let your stupidity lie and your dumb ass statements be or be kind and give you a history lesson....
???

FillYourBrain>>You see, I'm feeling unusually prejudice toward novacane, ..., and *ClownPimp* as we speak.

Spell my name right or I will have to bypass the moderators and call in a 'pre-emtive strike' on you. We know it was an act of provication.

We all know you use 'goto', don't use the FAQ or the search and are a 'void main'er'.

These kind of actions will not be tolerated any longer.

You know I have the higher post count on this board so you better do what I say.


PS would you like to buy some viruses, cheap, for later?
Just don't tell anyone where you got them and promise me you won't use them on anyone I like.

> You know I have the higher post count on this board so you better do what I say.

He's right, fyb - he out-losers you. My hands are tied

See even the Universal Noderaters are on my side.

Give up your evil ways FIB or suffer the wrath of the righteous and more powerful.

We are sending in the inspectors to ensure you have no pirate software.

We know you do and are willing to use it.








Govtcheez>>He's right, fyb - he out-losers you.

Umm.......If you have a higher post count, does that mean you 'out-loser' me?