Thread: Against/For Java???

I believe that java "overtaking" C++ is in reference to number of programmers. So it is not really a reflection of the suitability of the language but rather of how many people use it. I would imagine that this number will always be lower for C++ than a few other languages that are easier to use.

Last I had read- there were more VB programmers in the world than for any other language.

I'm all for more options. Why only have one tool in your toolbox? The more options you have available to you as you meet each new situation- the better.

Apart from Java's strengths as a language there is also the fact there are some real nice IDE's that are free or affordable. I love JBuilder.

But to me the biggest issue is diversity and choice. The more languages available the better.

If Micro$oft stops supporting Java, people will switch to Netscape.
Jave will never ever replace C or C++. That's a silly thesis.
IE 6 comes with XP, suposedly no support for Java, but I went
on the Web using XP Pro and never got a message asking if I would like to d/l a Java plugin.

rick barclay

I think Java is a great tool.
M$ thinks likewise. Take a look at C# and then Java and lie to me when you say they don't like alike. I don't think Java is the answer to all programmers' needs, but platform independent code is a great idea. It has its strengths and weaknesses but it definitely is a useful language. If you're looking to attack a language let's talk COBOL.

>wait, wait, wait... I thought I heard somewhere that Java wasn't even going to be supported by XP... or something like that.
<

Java won't be suported on XP, and heres my theory why.

it can be summed up as follows

.NET and Sun says "NO MS WE ARE NOT YOUR #####!"

I'll be taking a Java class next year. From what I've seen it looks okay, so I'll vote for Java.

What is it with the names for programming languages? Java - kindof some weird pun, cause programmers are supposed to be caffine junkies.

java = just another vague acronym

>If Micro$oft stops supporting Java, people will switch to Netscape.

uhm, Rick, have you looked at todays websites with anything
besides IE ? Most are optimized for IE in a way that makes them
unreadable with anything else, especially Netscape. Not because
of some evil MS ploy, but because as a developer you see so
many features your customers demand, and the only way to
make it possible is IE only features. I think if MS drops Java
support and gives no easy way to download Suns VM, Java
will die. Not because we don't use it. We know how to get a
VM even if it's not included in the default Windows setting.
But the average Joe will not know how to run Java if there
isn't some window popping up telling him to click ok to
download JVM somewhere in IE.

Java... *sigh* a pathetic language, said to be the cure for
everything. Said to be oh so wonderfully OOP.
"everything's an object" I hear the teachers and some books
say. Did they ever do something more than doing their
college assignment ? Did anyone of you ever do any serious
non-homework with it ? They have platform independence.
If you need that, you don't have another choice at the moment.
But that doesn't make it a good language.

Try the following: (pseudocode)

class CAR
method setcolor
method getcolor
method setdriver
method getdriver

class DRIVER
method setname
method getname

class POLICE
method check performed on CAR

Is there ANY way in Java to let POLICE operate on an
instance of CAR and to make sure that the CAR instance
is not getting changed by POLICE ? No.

Is there any way for CAR to make it's DRIVER private
member accessible for READ ONLY to the public ?
No, there's not. Just try CARVAR.getdriver.setname("joe");
How much OOP can it be when you can't protect your
privates ???

Can you define constants ? No.
Final DRIVER d = new DRIVER("Jane");
d.setname("Joe");
How constant is that ? Constant until I change it ?
Ridiculous !

Have you ever seen asserts in Java ? No ?
That's not because they were too lazy to implement.
It's because the compiler has NO means of figuring
out if the assert will change the program in various
builds.

Have you ever heard the line "everything is an object"
from your teachers ? So they probably don't program,
just teach. Why is it then, that Strings are NOT derived
from Object and do NOT behave like objects when used
as function parameters ? Ever wondered why Objects
are passed by reference, but Strings and primitive types
by value ? Oops, I said it, primitive types... seems as if
we still don't have objects only...


This all aren't features that make it a bad language.
But C/C++ has them, so I wonder why they were
omitted in Java ? Definetly not because of security.
Leaving them out is a huuge opportunity to mess
up a project and make debugging hell when working
with a team.

For those who said working with JDBC and sockets is
so easy... how much harder can ODBC and socket with
a normal library in C++ be ? Have you even tried ?
Probably not.

>Take a look at C# and then Java and lie to me when you say they don't like alike.

Strangely enough, the above mentioned points do not
apply to C#... only to Java.

>uhm, Rick, have you looked at todays websites with anything
besides IE ?<

Uh,...yes, I have. And you're right. Everything you said is
probably correct, too, because I've read a few articles
critcal of Java and praising C# for being an improvement over
Java. But the thing with me is: is everybody willing to pay for
these improvements? Bill Gates has always been considered
a greedy person, from the inception of DOS right up to today's
announcements by Microgates regarding corporate licensing
of M$ software, the institution of software activation upon
registration of a M$ product, etc., etc., etc. It's getting very
expensive to be a customer of a man already considered the
wealtiest person on the face of the Earth. Add today's
troubled economy to the mix and you have a formula for
people and corporations bolting to other vendors.

Netscape has a long way to catch up; no doubt about it. But once
people find the will and the strength to tear themselves away from an ever-enlarging Microsoft monopoly, Netscape could
make its long-hoped-for comeback as the browser of choice
for web-surfers, too. But they'd better be ready for this, because
they've already been warned by many, many critics who have
told SUN just what you said in your article. I'm rooting for them.
I always root for the underdog-excepting, of course, times
when underdogs cheat and kill innocents. But let's not get
into that, please.

rick barclay