Thread: a note to those of you who drink

first stevey:
you said you don't hate the muslem? then don't put them down.

second, if (not siding with the terrorists though) ,well the only reason why we need to protect ourselfs with an army, is cause we keep ........ing people off. example:

Do you know why, many Afganistan citizents hate america, and why osama hates it also? Well one day there sitting there protesting because isreal is trying to move in there troops, then what was peacful protest turns into a massacure of machine guns and tanks, the protesters armed only with rocks. then in this bloodshed all they see is the side of the tanks that read 'U.S.A', thats right we supplied isreal with the guns, and tanks. now who would you be mad at?

and another thing you sit there and say a utopia will never be. well your right, as long as you think that way, and how can there ever be a utopia when countries still have standing army's. it is america 's & the UN's duty to first ban alll weapon export/inport, and so on, keep making it tougher to get weapons (for military use) in order to one day demilitarize the world, an makke it illegal for any country to hold a standing army. then move on to the next step.

maybe you should think before you deny the posibilities of great things. armyies serve no purpose, as long as they don't exist, but when one does, others will follow, and so on.

Note: The U.S alone's military budget before 9/11 was 300,000,000,000 (300 billion, zero count?) and they say they have an education funding crisis???? why don't we put at least some of this money to good use. it is our money you know.

**clyde im with you on this one, well i think, R U w/ me?**

i have no wish to see the USA brought to its knees by muslim fundamentalists and no desire to see my own country taken over by muslims...if thats putting them down, then i'm putting them down....its typical of thick idiots like you to jump on oohhh stevey's a racist bigot, just cos i hate muslim fundamentalists, i hate christian fundamentalists too......
it is an accepted fact that since the fall of communism, the grweatest threat to western democracies and especially the USA is the muslim fundamentalist.they have no mercy, they would explode a nuclear bomb in New York if they had one.

and if you had actually read anything Osama Bin Nutcase has said, then you would realise that his main gripe with the USA is not over Israel it is simply that he is so upset about American troops being on his sacred soil ie Saudia Arabia...in particular it has made his blood boil that WOMEN troops are on Saudi soil. yes women, oooh how awful those dirty evil women......

yep, thats it....hes said so, but you obviously haven't listened..you ASSUME its over Israel, actually it was not. so all those people died because the US was so evil as to send troops to protect their allies....

[BTWif you knew anything at all you could see that all the rifles and most of the tanks being used by israel are israeli made...
the USA supplies more weapons to Arab countries as it does to Israel. Especially Kuwait, Saudi and Egypt. also USA armed iraq and the mujahadin. the USA has never discriminated against Moslems when it comes to selling arms. neither has the British, we are very close to some Arab countries and to Pakistan.]

Muslim fundamentalists are evil, crazy people..that doesn't apply to your average Muslim.....

why don't you wait till you actually know something b4 you bother speaking....

and this **** you spout about demilitarising the planet, you pathetic dreamer, there will always be somebody out there evil or mad enough to build his own little army when everybody has got rid of theirs......the best we can hope for is that the only army in the world will be the UN army, but it will always need nuclear weapons and will need to be very strong....why do i bother arguing with kiddies, you'll grow out of it.....

"**clyde im with you on this one, well i think, R U w/ me?**"

Well.... not exactly.

"Do you know why, many Afganistan citizents hate america, and why osama hates it also? Well one day there sitting there protesting because isreal is trying to move in there troops, then what was peacful protest turns into a massacure of machine guns and tanks, the protesters armed only with rocks. then in this bloodshed all they see is the side of the tanks that read 'U.S.A', thats right we supplied isreal with the guns, and tanks. now who would you be mad at?"

It's a little more complicated than that, Bin Laden gibbers on about the American occupation of the "holy lands" (Saudi Arabia), and other such nonsense.

"and another thing you sit there and say a utopia will never be. well your right, as long as you think that way, and how can there ever be a utopia when countries still have standing army's."

Realistically we cannot expect the individual countries of the world to suddenly decide to completely remove their military. It will never happen like that, because if they started doing it you can bet there would be a whole host of opportunistic attacks.

"maybe you should think before you deny the posibilities of great things. armyies serve no purpose, as long as they don't exist, but when one does, others will follow, and so on. "

Demiltarisation can only really occur where both sides realise victory is not possible, a good example is the cold war.

The only thing we can do is push for globalisation, attempt to point out the folly of nationalism and point out the equality of all people.

"Note: The U.S alone's military budget before 9/11 was 300,000,000,000 (300 billion, zero count?) and they say they have an education funding crisis???? why don't we put at least some of this money to good use. it is our money you know"

I do agree that the budget assigned to the military is sometimes unnecessary and could be spent on more worthy causes, but thats politics. As globalisation occurs, nationlism will decrease, with it will the threat of conflict and the budget assigned to the military.

clyde: i understand you, but maybe globalization will end the hatreds of nationalism, but then the government will only become stonger, and make it harder for activests like to try and make a channge, they already deny all we say, and they don' t even need proof, propaganda takes care of that, and makes people believe what ever they say. if they become stronger then god knows what they will do, maybe physicaly actualy start enslaving people for all we know, am i right?

stevey: ok, in your first post here you said MUSLIM, not Muslim Fundermentalists. OK. how can you expect me to know what your talkin bout when your not specific.? ok?

i think that the us uses propaganda all the time , they ship out the news edited of the stuff they don't wannt us to see. did u know one of the worlds largest makers of weapons owns aol time warner, which owns cnn, and almost every source of news. also they hardly ever show protest on tv. probably cause they don't want people to start thinking for themselfs. and when they do they point out hte non progresive people like the a-holes who are always there to cause trouble and hold up the anarchy sign. and they always make it out that the protesters are the bad ones, and not what they are fighting.

if this was a democracy then how come they don't listen to us. when millions demonstrate at wto protests world wide, they turn to us and say "hey, you might not like it , but the people want it." what the... we are the people?!?!?! right?

Originally posted by johnc
clyde: i understand you, but maybe globalization will end the hatreds of nationalism, but then the government will only become stonger, and make it harder for activests like to try and make a channge, they already deny all we say, and they don' t even need proof, propaganda takes care of that, and makes people believe what ever they say. if they become stronger then god knows what they will do, maybe physicaly actualy start enslaving people for all we know, am i right?

stevey: ok, in your first post here you said MUSLIM, not Muslim Fundermentalists. OK. how can you expect me to know what your talkin bout when your not specific.? ok?

well if somebody is talking about threats to your country and they say
"nazi's, communists and muslims" i thought it was reasonable to assume i was refering to the sept 11th debacle, not to all muslims, since only fundamentalists are a threat obviously...you just couldn't resist jumping on the 'hes a lousy racist bigot' bandwagon....still if i could be bothered at the time i would have put the fundamentalist bit on the end...and you were not to know i have many friends of different colours and religions, altho i always have a go at their religions cos i'm an atheist...surprisingly they don't really mind...


i like the number of my last post, now thats ironic, mebe i am actually evil!!! (damn ive changed it to 667 now)

sorry.

Originally posted by johnc
sorry.

actually, looking at it again...

"and stop slagging the military off, they are necessary, there are some NASTY people out there....did u want to be a Nazi, a communist, a muslim .....???????"

a statement like that can be construed as looking like i was lumping all muslims in with nazi's and communists!!! its lazy posting, someone will always tend to jump on it.

its not what i meant tho', i meant the minority of NASTY muslim fundamentalists, truley appalling people who make the need for strong defences all too obvious IMO. they aren't pacifists, so while they exist neither can we be.....

>>>When I posted, I was stating my opinions not as fact, and I said as much. I posted because I thought there was too much glorification of alcohol, drugs, etc. I posted because I think it is very potentially harmful and usually leads only to a messed up life.

I'm not trying to change your' belief, I'm just stating mine. And I don't appreciate being flamed for my morals.

napKIN<<<

Feeling a little guilty are you... ?? I wasn't posting about you. My fault for not putting johnc's name in there somewhere.

No flame... just you being insecure (that was a flame... but I mean it jokingly )

Originally posted by Clyde
""I don't like the military. I hate alcohol. I hate this... I hate that. Blah blah blah blah blah." "

You like the fact that we need a military?

Yes I do. I got a paycheck from them for a number of years along with enormous amounts of electronics training while protecting your sorry arse from bad people. We have police too.... I certainly like the fact that we need them as well.... live the excitement.... good versus bad, the ultimate game... reality is better than any video game. Some of you are just too young and fat to be a real part of it.

You people seem to miss the point that a lot of this military budget that you speak of pays the bills, provides medical, provides housing, and provides retirement pay for many, many people and families. Even if you dumped the military and all of its equipment today, you would still spend hundreds of billions in VA medical, retirement, nuclear upkeep, etc, etc. It isn't all about making bombs people, on the contrary.... we have a surplus and are downsizing. It is a defense budget. (computers, satelites, hazardous weather response, first aid, and more and more that deals nothing with killing)

There is a reality in the defense budget that isn't available to ignorant, non-drinking, cowering, adolescent pansies that sit their fat arses at their military enabled computers looking at porn half the time, and arguing the existence of everything they 'think' is bad the other half of the time. In some countries it is a requirement to serve your country (like wonderful Finland)... consider yourself lucky that some of us did it for you.

But who cares... how do you people get off on a military tangent in a drinking post? (Well perhaps that is a silly question, lol )

Ditto to Betazep and I think Doubleanti

It is human nature, no nearly every animal if not all to fight. Animals fight over the same things we do terriory and love. There is no such think as utopia as utopia differs from person to person.

Right and Wrong are a matter of perspective.

" certainly like the fact that we need them as well.... live the excitement.... good versus bad, the ultimate game... reality is better than any video game"

The ultimate ****ing game? GAME? I'm lost for words; in this "game" of yours people DIE, i'm glad you're entertained.

"You people seem to miss the point that a lot of this military budget that you speak of pays the bills, provides medical, provides housing, and provides retirement pay for many, many people and families"

I have no bones with that, I have bones with the substantial amount of capital that goes into miltary weapon research.

"Some of you are just too young and fat to be a real part of it. "

LOL, i could get into the miltary, i just don't want to be part of it. I know that the military is necessary, I don't have to like that fact.

>>>The ultimate ****ing game? GAME? I'm lost for words; in this "game" of yours people DIE, i'm glad you're entertained.

It is entertainment and has been throughout all of history. Where have you been? Great epics are written upon this very game. Competitive games like chess and go were developed to further the game. Plays, movies, songs, computers (hackers/security) all featuring the game. Yes in real life people die. There is a suprise.... people die.... go figure.... I thought we lived forever. Damn you are wise!

It isn't a "game" of mine. "The Art of War" (ever read it?) is a game that started at the beginning of human time. Many philosophers, politicians, militant radicalists, religious fanatics, placid pacifists, and more have played their part, and some have written and/or exposed great guidance and insight on the reality of the human demise. (I assure you... yours is no great insight...)

You are playing your pacifism side. I am playing good. Bad wants to kill you. I capture bad.

You don't like the game and elect to not play. Don't worry.... I will protect you. It is my role in the game. I don't require, request, or need you to play my side of the game... but don't be a fool and think the game does not exist and will go away. This isn't Utopia...


"War is a matter of vital importance to the state; a matter of life or death, the road either to survival or to ruin. Hence, it is imperative that it be studied thoroughly." Sun Tzu


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"Some of you are just too young and fat to be a real part of it. "

LOL, i could get into the miltary, i just don't want to be part of it. I know that the military is necessary, I don't have to like that fact.
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I wonder if you could even imagine how much this action tells me about you... as for the content, you are right, you don't have to like anything you do not want to.