Thread: Who contributed most to the defeat of Fascist Germany ??

>>>>If not for several incidents and Eisenhower's fear of confrontation with the Soviets, he probably would have beaten the Red Army to Berlin, thus preventing, or at least alleviating, four decades of trouble in Germany, not to mention general low living standards in East Germany

i don't rate Patton as highly as you do, he didn't contribute as much in Africa as you imply, in fact he had a few shocks when fighting the Germans for the first time.
he was the ideal man to lead the breakout after Normandy though.
But the Soviets taking Berlin was agreed at Yalta, thats why the Western Allies didn't push on.....it wasn't Eisenhower.
in hindsight i think we gave the USSR too much, half of Germany and eastern Europe...i especially feel sorry for the Poles.
But the Red Army was so powerful, and the British had had enough fighting. Patton said the USA should keep fighting against the USSR after Germany fell, but that was totally ridiculous.....he was a VERY arrogant man......

Interesting sidenote:

>Germany lost the war when they attacked Russia

There are sources saying that Stalin would have attacked on his own two weeks later. If you are looking up figures of Russian production, you will see that tank ( aggressive weapon ) output was rather high and the tanks were completely inoperable on russian terrain because they were designed to use at least dirt roads. Many of them shreded tracks and were overrun by the germans in the first year.
As Russian and Asian terrain had little to offer concerning roads or flat countrysides, the logical conclusion would be middle europe as a prime target.

If Russia had attacked with it's massive tank power able to fight on proper ( non-russian ) terrain, it could have been a lot worse for Germany.

( This is open to debate, I read it. It isn't neccessarily the truth, I haven't checked this )

Originally posted by Dual-Catfish
I'm disgusted to see that Canada was excluded from the poll, and the USA was not. Canada was in the war from the start.

mebe i should have said, British Empire and Commonwealth countries.

according to my history book.....
sept 3rd 1939, great britain, new zealand, australia, india and france at war with germany.
sept 10th 1939 canada declares war on germany to help great britain and france..a very moral decision considering they were not directly threatened.....
canada raises 780,000 fighting men and loses 39,320 dead.
canada's 3rd division makes up 1/5 of d-day invasion force and land on a beach of their own.
canada and british forces have the hardest fighting around Caen, to allow the Americans under Patton to break out......
canadians push on to close the Falaise pocket with appalling casualties...
a german general quotes "the british are fighting to the last drop of canadian blood"
canadians continue to make up around 1/5 of Allied armies in the western front......
nobody fought much better than the Canadians, Aussies and new zealanders.......

Originally posted by nvoigt
Interesting sidenote:

>Germany lost the war when they attacked Russia

There are sources saying that Stalin would have attacked on his own two weeks later. If you are looking up figures of Russian production, you will see that tank ( aggressive weapon ) output was rather high and the tanks were completely inoperable on russian terrain because they were designed to use at least dirt roads. Many of them shreded tracks and were overrun by the germans in the first year.
As Russian and Asian terrain had little to offer concerning roads or flat countrysides, the logical conclusion would be middle europe as a prime target.

If Russia had attacked with it's massive tank power able to fight on proper ( non-russian ) terrain, it could have been a lot worse for Germany.

>>>>>i dont know where you got this from at all......
everthing ive read is totally to the contrary.....
Stalin was totally shocked when hitler broke their peace agreement and apparently went into deep depression for several days after before getting himself together........there were no plans for attacking Germany


( This is open to debate, I read it. It isn't neccessarily the truth, I haven't checked this )

Originally posted by ygfperson
i've gone past the point of actually caring what country wins the poll.

i asked the question for interests sake, i wanted to see peoples opinions, and to highlight the role of the USSR which i thought was neglected in the West, certainly among people i talk to...
but people on this board seem to be better informed than most.....

its was a bit of a trite question actually and its obvious that it was very much an Allied effort.

it is heartening that although there were disagreements the Allies worked well together for a common good. wish i could see that happening more today.........where are the German, Italian, French and other European troops in Afganistan ?? why is it the USA has to fight the wars which need winning ie gulf war, war on al queda etc
still the British help as much as we can...and we should.

>>>I wonder what would have happened if Einstein remained in Europe for the duration of the war

he would have been gassed !!!!!!

>>>Explain to me why Canada isn't just as viable an answer as any other up there.

dont be daft !!!

troops mobilised / casualties(dead)
inc. civilians

Britain 4.6 million / 331,000
USSR >20 million / 20/25 million ??
USA 11.5 million / 292,000
canada 780,000 / 39,300

not that numbers of troops and casualties are a full picture but still.....don't be daft !

Originally posted by Dual-Catfish
Perhaps I should rephrase that. What would have happened if he had not been flagged a jew?

how do you mean "flagged a jew", he was a jew !! and as such would never have helped Hitler.
but if he wasn't jewish ??? he wasn't actually one of the main scientists developing the bomb, but who knows ?????

>where are the German, Italian, French and other European troops in Afganistan ??


German troops are part of the peacekeeping force in Kabul.

German special forces ( KSK ) were fighting alongside US troops even before Afghanistan was freed from the Taliban.

Originally posted by nvoigt
>where are the German, Italian, French and other European troops in Afganistan ??


German troops are part of the peacekeeping force in Kabul.

German special forces ( KSK ) were fighting alongside US troops even before Afghanistan was freed from the Taliban.

yep theres a few, but considering Germany is the 3rd richest nation in the world........

theres 6000 US ground troops
1700 British.......

and only a few hundred soldiers of other nations.

and the gulf war - 10 US divisions, 1 french, 1 British.........wheres everbody else ??????

we shouldn't rely on the US to do the Western worlds fighting, even if they are good at it !!
the US is getting tired of defending Europe.......