Thread: After life?

Albert Einstein: "...science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind."

It all boils down to what you believe in. what comes after life is nothing that can be proven, so why debate about it?

"Right. There is no proof for the existance of a higher being.
But then, there is no proof of the absence of a higher being.
As a logical person, I would therefore conclude that both is
possible. "

Oh this is another classic:

There is no proof for the existance of santa-claus, but then, there is no proof of the absence of santa-claus, as a logical person, I would there conclude both are possible..........

Bzzzzt. I think not, you see we do not build up a picture of reality based upon what has not been disproved -> if we did we would end up living in a dream world. We build up a picture of reality based upon evidence and theory.

Plus there IS huge amounts of "proof" in the abasence of an after-life: Neurology and physics.

"We have
a heart, we have a brain, but noone found a soul yet. Yet"

Errr, a heart is made of cells, lungs are made of cells, a "soul" is made of magic. Furthermore, there is no rational reason to believe in a soul when every function of such a soul can be accounted to the brain.

"That's right. I'm not saying that I can do anything to make you
believe in an Afterlife. It's not probable. I don't really believe
this either"

You're clinging to hope, ignoring rationality blindingly believeing in what you choose. It's ok i've seen it dozens of times before. For a long time Ijust could not get my head around it, after all if I think one particular scientific theory has got it right, then another one comes along and blows it out of the water, I don't cling voratiously to the previously disproved theory.... But people do just that when it comes to religion, they believe not in what's rational, but in what they want to believe. Now it's not imposible for people to come around...... but normally you have to get em young, after say 20ish, the ideas are so ingrained into their heads, that no amount of reasoning makes any difference. It's sad really, but it's a flaw in the brain. To be expected i guess since out brain evolved not to ponder reality but to help us hunt antelope.

"But saying that there is none is simply ignorant of the
fact that even science can fail"

..... for there to be one, ALL of neurology has got to be wrong, completely wrong, as does ALL of physics. Even though we have voluminous amounts of evidence supporting them. The probablitly that they are both entirely wrong (which needs to happen for there to be an after-life) is so incomprehensibly small, that we can treat it as never happening. Atleast when dealing with other phenonmenon with EQUAL probability we ignore them as utterly rediculous:

Living in the Matrix: possible, but so improbable we ignore it, a dragon materialising over our heads when we eat lunch, possible, but so improbable we ignore it, the after-life, possible, but so improbable we ignore it.

"Not acknowledging the chance that
science will know better in hundred years ( like it did for the last
10.000.000 years ) is blind belief, not better than any religion"

Errr, science has only been around for 4,000 years. And no doubt we will know more (though in certain fields, like physics just how much more is unknown) in another 10,000 but there is no way in hell that all of physics and all of neurology are ever going to be proved wrong. (We can SEE neurology working with MRI scanners, we can test neurology by opening people's heads up, or stimulating the brain in certain regions with magnetic fields and noting the results, planes, cars, computers, stereos, all technology are all based on the laws of physics) That idea is as rediculous as suggesting that maybe in 10,000 years science will prove the Earth is flat!

There is no "blind faith" in science, just cold, hard reason.

So when you say:

"Blind faith = irrational = not usefull in getting the truth.

You got it. This is exactly what I'm talking about"

I take it then you have abandoned relgion then? And do not believe in any of this nonsensical after-life/ supreme being/ talking goats/ santa-claus etc.?

>I take it then you have abandoned relgion then? And do not >believe in any of this nonsensical after-life/ supreme being/ >talking goats/ santa-claus etc.?

I don't believe in these things and never have. I don't believe things I don't have proof for. And while I don't believe in a higher being myself, I cannot rightly claim to know better than a believer, because I cannot prove him wrong.

"I don't believe things I don't have proof for. And while I don't believe in a higher being myself, I cannot rightly claim to know better than a believer, because I cannot prove him wrong"

Whilst it is true you cannot prove him wrong, you can prove what he believes in is irrational, and you can prove that if you want the truth the only way to go about getting it is through rationality.

That is why you can also claim to know better than someone who believes in Santa/talking goats/(insert random rediculous statement here).

>>That is why you can also claim to know better than someone who believes in Santa

Ok, I'll let you argue against god and religion if you want. But leave Santa out of this!!
I know he exists!!!
Just because you don't deserve presents doesn't mean he doesn't exist.

"Ok, I'll let you argue against god and religion if you want. But leave Santa out of this!!"

Sorry, my bad

God (or whatever) set off the big bang !!! and never interfered since !!
praying is a load of ********, 6 million jews (god's chosen!!) prayed like crazy, didn't help.

quote -

"we are all stardust...all atoms in your body were made in a star, we are the universe's attempt to understand itself , we ARE the universe" (something like that)

>>we are the universe's attempt to understand itself
i like that, thats neat.

PS

Don't come back as a cow unless you want to end up in my stomach, be digested and then EXCRETED !!

There ain't no Sanity Clause !!

>6 million jews (god's chosen!!) prayed like crazy, didn't help

Are you somehow gifted with magical abilities ? How come you know what would have happened if they had not prayed ?

Originally posted by Clyde
"Are you somehow gifted with magical abilities ? How come you know what would have happened if they had not prayed ?"

LOL, right. They prayed and ...... they got slaughtered, but hey, maybe if they hadn't prayed.... errr... they would ..... errr.... have got slaughtered.

Exactly !!
(or were they praying to the WRONG god eh ??? give me strength!!)

Whether theres a god or whatever, he/she/it most certainly doesn't interfere with our petty lives !!! i think this is borne out by history.
i hate to hear this "i'll pray for you" crap......
pray for good exam results, pray for this pray for that, nobody's listening.....................

my auntie was a Christian Scientist, they won't have transplants, go to the doctor etc because "its god's will" if you are sick !!!
so her husband is ill, and won't go to the doctor, they just pray at his bedside all day long etc

so he lay there a long time in agony and then he died. i can't remember what he died of, but it was NOTHING much, he could have been saved easily with antibiotics.

just one example of religion (extreme example i know), but i just want to get my tuppence in......

i hate all organised religion, we'd be better off without it.

and...

>>>And while I don't believe in a higher being myself, I cannot rightly claim to know better than a believer, because I cannot prove him wrong.

no you can't, but the onus is on a believer to prove god exists. if i say to you "i believe in fairies", its up to me to prove they exist..not up to you to prove they don't. just like any scientific theory etc.


(ps i was reading yesterday how the pope said NOTHING, did NOTHING, and he was well aware that jews were being slaughtered - and hes "gods representative on earth" - so mebe they WERE praying to the wrong god!!)

"I hate all organised religion, we'd be better off without "

Don't get me started! I LOATHE religion, More people have died in the name of God, than for any other cause (hell the Spanish inquisition alone killed more people than both world wars), religion is hugely damaging to human society, not only does it interfere with education, but it causes un-necessary pain, suffering and war.

Stamp it out.

Check out this page:

http://www.closetatheist.com/wtcdawkins.htm

Dawkins rocks!

I couldn't agree more Clyde, i really couldn't.
Have you heard the Bob Dylan song "with God on our side"??
classic.
thats a GREAT link ->
favourite quote->"If death is final, a rational agent can be expected to value his life highly and be reluctant to risk it. This makes the world a safer place"

but

>>(hell the Spanish inquisition alone killed more people than both world wars

this isn't true matey !!!!!!

about 40 million died in WWII alone !!!!