I dont get your point. The main reason I like HLLs is because I dont have to spend most of my time managing my code.C++ in a way offers everything that C offers plus some new stuff. Like classes, exception handling. It makes the "game" more fun. Java and C# are really OOP. No fun. Because the fun is creating algorithms, not managing code.
Again I dont get it. What OOP features does C++ lack?On the other hand, C++ is somehow incomplete. If you want OOP features you are really better with C#.
Built-in garbage collection... Unless you are using C++ .NET extentions.. Which I find rediculous to even fathom using except for certain tasks where C# just can't make the grade.
I am glad to see the only element of agreement with Elysia happened to be "Writing algorithms is more fun than just writing a funcitonal program." My heart grew three sizes too large after reading that.
Good call, Thantos.
Like everything derives from Object. Autoboxing. No forward declaration. Properties. Arrays are objects. A lot of keywords for classes. Interfaces. Foreach. Delegates. References (as not value type).Originally Posted by mike_g
Eh, OK, no HUGE differences. But you get the idea...
foreach does exist in <algorithms>....
If Java is no fun because it has these features then I suppose it's a good thing C++ did not include them. I really don't get your point either, I'm afraid.
If the argument was about "the fun of programming" the thread would have ended ten pages ago, too. About the only way Elysia's statements relate to yours is the fact that she thinks C++ is better than C because C++ is more "fun" to write. Now sprinkle in some fundamentalism and a desire to burn C textbooks because C's not "fun". Stir ingredients into a large bowl. Bake for 45 minutes at 400F on a nonstick pan, and you've got you're very own Elysia. Serves 12.
>> If Java is no fun because it has these features then I suppose it's a good thing C++ did not include them.
Methinks, C_ntua was saying Java is fun because of those. But I dunno. Don't make Elysia mad... she will nit-pick your every missed colon, incorrect grammar, misspelling, typeo, and misunderstanding of any question until you are forced into oblivion!
If the fun is in creating algorithms (I'm not going to argue your tastes naturally) then I suggest perhaps a good notebook, a pencil and an eraser. Programming languages are terrible tools for that.
Meanwhile "managed code" doesn't mean you yourself is going to manage your code (whatever that may be). The term is used to describe programing languages that have their code executed through a virtual machine and has no relation to the code maintainability qualities. Just thought I'd let you know.
Originally Posted by brewbuck:
Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.
Maybe I can get out of it if I let her turn me into a recipe too.Don't make Elysia mad... she will nit-pick your every missed colon, incorrect grammar, misspelling, typeo, and misunderstanding of any question until you are forced into oblivion!
If you do can I keep the weber?
edit: hmm... bad joke. I just mean since you are giving your life away to a code vegan I might as well keep your stuff
Last edited by Mario F.; 10-13-2008 at 07:42 PM.
Originally Posted by brewbuck:
Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.
Haha. Well as long as there is a silver lining to this cloud, I say let Mario keep the stuff. I will take a vow of protecting your source materials from being stolen by Microsoft.
Just distribute my ashes in accordance with your understanding of my geographical preferences. My ashes are not to be kept by any individual for a period exceeding one month.
The remainder of my possessions are to be divided into equal shares.
>> Just distribute my ashes in accordance with your understanding of my geographical preferences.
I'm going with countries started with C. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries#C
Christmas, Cocos and Cook Islands.
(I also appreciate the irony of the # on the url, but can't think of anything to say... bah!)
Originally Posted by brewbuck:
Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.
I am just pointing out that when you have better control over what you do it is more "fun" in some things. So, C++ is like C with extra features. That is how you would see it. Java/C# are more OOP. Don't argue that you can do everything also with C++. It is just their style.
So, my guess is that if C++ didn't exist Elysia would like C over Java/C#, just as a preference. Since it exists she/he finds C useless and whats to get rid of it.
The bottom line is that Java/C# are really similar and their ideas are based on C++. And all are 80% like C. So you cannot actually really disagree in the first place.
The real question I believe professors face is this: "I will teach the basic stuff of C that are common in all these languages. Why switch to something else if I don't use it's features?".
My answer would be (as said like 10 pages before) to teach something more advanced to introduce the tool. Like giving a shotgun to somebody and teach him only to use it as a club. Even though he won't know how to shoot maybe he will learn by himself. In any case you familiarize him with the tool. That's all. A small difference in the end. If the wanted to teach OOP features the couldn't use C in the first place.
As a final note, C++ really seems the worst choice. It is the most complicated of all.
How do you figure?
Java
C++Code:int cost(Oranges o, Apples a) { if (o.paid == true || a.paid == true) return; else o.paid = true; a.paid = true; return o.cost() + a.cost(); }
An example how to use objects inside a function. You tell the newbie that, in C#, you just pass the objects, not needing to explain the difference of by value and by reference.Code:int cost(Oranges& o, Apples& a) { if (o.paid == true || a.paid == true) { return 0; } else { o.paid = true; a.paid = true; } return o.cost() + a.cost(); }
Now, the same example can be used to teach a higher-level newbie about the difference between passing an object by reference or by value.
You get my point. C++ illustrates better some things, C# some other.
Last edited by C_ntua; 10-14-2008 at 01:45 PM.
