Thread: Should it be legalized?

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=1017
Like banning anything ever solved anything.
Tried it before, it didn't work then and the so-called "war on drugs" is just as bone-headed.

At best, you have a very expensive stale-mate.

I agree with mike_g. There are "good" (aka taxed, with known quality standards) drugs such as alcohol and there are "bad" (aka, untaxed, provided by criminals, with no quality standards) drugs.

Alcohol by the way kills 18000 people a year, but no-one gives a hoot because it's always or two at a time.
Tobacco also kills in large numbers, again only one or two at a time.

The only thing which should be criminalised is your inability to use your drug of choice responsibly. If you kill someone whilst DUI, you're in the clink for a nice stretch, but no-one goes round suggesting banning cars or alcohol as the solution to the problem.

Plus, how you kill someone should have no bearing on the sentence. Unlike in the UK where killing someone whilst drunk can get you a remarkably light sentence.

Originally Posted by brewbuck

I'm not seeing the logical connections in this argument. It's illegal because it hurts people, and it hurts people because... it's illegal? Can you please relate an anecdote or other bit of experience that makes you believe that cannabis is harmful? "It's illegal so it's bad" is not an argument.

If it wasn't illegal, more would use, which would mean more accidents and bad effects happening in the society.

Because the best world is a world that's locked down, where people's decisions are made for them, and Elysia's opinion is the only valid one?

But I guess I shouldn't be surprised, since you've expressed similar opinions in the past, like banning people from living in areas where natural disasters occur (in other words, the entire planet)

Indeed?
I beg you to think. There are idiots born in the society. If they drink and drive cars are they only affected? Or are others? In effect: because they do things, they hurt OTHERS who are INNOCENT.
There will always be those kind of people, and in effect, making it illegal would most likely reduce this type of occurrence.
I'm basing the opinion on that it benefits the society more in general, fewer accidents and less resources to catch such people, than if it were legal.

This is how I see it. Feel free to disagree.

Originally Posted by mike_g

IMO it should be fully legalized and taxed. Not only would it save a fortune on policing, court costs and keeping people in jail, but the government would be able to make money from it in the same way they do with tobbacco and alcohol.

But then again, what expenses would it cause to clean up the mess some people do? To keep bigger and more checks, to hospitalize people hurt by those?
It has an effect on society too, even if it brings in more income. It can bring more misery and death, as well as accidents, too.

It does have its drawbacks as in it makes people lazy and can cause paranoia for people that overdo it, but in general its far less harmful smoking and drinking. Its also less addictive, which tends to be the main factor used in the classification of drugs. I think criminalizing it is unfair as people that smoke green generally arent arent causing problems for other people, so it should be a matter of personal choice.

I do agree, but as a society, they must think of a middle line between which is acceptable and what isn't.
If it hurts more to have it legalized, then unfortunately, they must think of the whole society first.

Originally Posted by brewbuck

This makes no sense. What does the legal status of something have to do with the number of people who desire it? Do you think there is a horde of people waiting in the wings for the moment cannabis is legalized, at which point they're suddenly going to start smoking it? People who've never used it before?

Well, now that's just silly... to say that the legalization won't increase the number of users of the drug is just rediculous. You're going to tell me that every person curious about the drug is willing to break the law to try it? You're going to tell me that the increase in Canada of people polling that they use marajuana since its been legalized is in direct proportion of the number of people too ashamed to admit they commit a vice every now and then?

I personally am on the side of legalizing the drug, because as others said it can be a major tax gain for the government. They could even do the same thing they do with cigarettes by putting a hard cap on the minimum price that you could sell the drug for. It causes less harm to yourself than cigarettes or alcohol and it causes less harm to others than alcohol (and cigarettes depending on where you stand with the second-hand smoke facts). However, I think it would be silly to admit that, if legalized, then the volume of marajuana users in the country wouldn't increase... it's also silly to say that the users wouldn't be smoking it more often. If you were to find these to be truths, then I'd have to completely go against my initial point because I think it wouldn't be such a hot ticket for the government if the market for the drug didn't grow significantly.

Eventually drugs will be legalized across the world. A huge step was already taken in decriminalizing usage. Production and distribution will also eventually be legalized as the economical argument becomes increasingly more powerful. Currently a huge government untaped economy worth billions of dollars is being ran by drug lords. Crime pays, much like it did during the Prohibition. And much like in those days, crime came to stay and no manner of law enforcement will change that.

I have no opinion either way, I'm afraid. I never gave it much thought. Sometimes I too think it can be dangerous. But hearing brewbuck makes me feel a little better. On the other hand, decriminalizing drugs may be a huge step in guaranteeing more active and responsible government support in treatment. It will probably also help in the creation of a new brand of drug consumers that, because they are no longer pariahs, social outcasts, will feel less immersed in this world and less hard pressed to become irreversible addicts.

Yes it should be legalised. And in some cases, use of it should be compulsory...

Originally Posted by SlyMaelstrom

However, I think it would be silly to admit that, if legalized, then the volume of marajuana users in the country wouldn't increase...

Marijuana is legal over here and the number of consumers hasn't increased. In fact it keeps declining. The reason it does has nothing to do with legalization, mind you. But with educational values that have thankfully risen along with a more general conscious mind about the issues of soft drugs.

Marijuana is really not a problem. It never was. It's not even more dangerous than pain killers or anti-depressives that every day kill someone in the world. There are in my opinion, better reasons to look at the issue of legalization than looking at the possibility of usage increasing or decreasing, as marijuana legalization seems to have proved at least over here.

Marijuana is legal over here and the number of consumers hasn't increased. In fact it keeps declining. The reason it does has nothing to do with legalization, mind you. But with educational values that have thankfully risen along with a more general conscious mind about the issues of soft drugs.

Well, SlyMaelstrom forgot the ceteris paribus.

Originally Posted by brewbuck

If people are responsible enough to obey the law, even if they disagree with it, why do you think those people will suddenly become irresponsible if it were legalized? Clearly, these people value the law, and social order. Do you think a little bit of pot is going to change them into irresponsible sociopaths?

And if you actually thought that legalization would lead to increased social disorder, why do you claim to be pro-legalization?

When did I say that smoking marajuana is irresponsible or a social disorder? Breaking the law is irresponsible... and you'd have to be mad to say that there aren't law-abiding citizens that have a personal interest in experimenting with marijuana but refuse because they are, in fact, law-abiding. You'd have to be mad to say that there aren't people that wouldn't consider trying the drug if they knew that it was, in fact, legal and safe. What about something else... let's say prostitution. There is one place in this country where prostitution is legalized: Las Vegas, Nevada. Now, while prostitution is prevelant all through-out the country... it would be grossly wrong to say there aren't people who have admittedly gone to Las Vegas simply to be with a prostitute knowing very well that they could get the same services illegally near their home. Hell, you can even tally up the number of people who take a trip up to Canada to smoke pot... there are 1000s of people yearly that make that trip for that very reason. Many of those people are not regular pot-smokers in the states, because most people who have smoked marijuana in the US know the limited risk in getting caught and would never bother with the extra expense.

I could really pull up a ton of other examples of this. Even with prohibition there was an immediate decrease in the consumption of alcohol simply because some people did not want to break the law.

Originally Posted by laserlight

Well, SlyMaelstrom forgot the ceteris paribus.

Well, of course, you'd have to assume there are no obscure factors that would disinterest the consumer like a rediculous increase in price or significant decrease in quality... however, I don't see what logic anyone could consider that would say simply legalizing something would reduce the interest of the consumer and therefor decrease the volume of consumers or even leave it the same.

In response to Thantos, I agree... if legalized, there would certainly be an immediate spike in consumption as people satisfy their curiousity and attempt to follow the crowd. Eventually this spike would level off and the number of users would die down, however, I couldn't say it would get back down to where it is before it is illegal as some of the new consumers from that spike would surely wish to continue the habit. I think the real key in the matter would lay on the commercial and financial industry on how they react to hiring marijuana users. Surely, if the drug was legal but it was shown that many employers had problems with hiring marijuana users, then the number of users would decrease.

I honestly don't see what's the problem in an increase of consumption. How exactly is that a bad thing if it was to be legalized in the first place?

In other words, how can an increase or decrease in consumption can be an argument pro or in favor, Sly? You seem to be looking at this from the whole wrong POV. If there is an opinion that consumption will increase and this is seen as bad then you can agree that a priori you are against legalization. Because you wouldn't ever agree to legalize something you consider bad.